I'm sick of people remembering ...

Originally posted by scherzo
I have read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and i think it's a despicable book. But Israel is in no way representative of Jewish values.

You do know it's fake right?

Originally posted by scherzo
But Israel is in no way representative of Jewish values.

I'm against all what Israel stands for. I never use the word jew, I always refer them to Israelis. Yet I sometimes I hear the word jew-hater.

I don't think jews are terrorist. I think the leards of Israel are. They use terror agaisnt Palestinians. They give order to bomb Palestinian schools, hospitals, ambulances, populated areas in random. Every one supporting the idea that this is right are terrorist supporters. Some terrorist supporters are jews, but I will never say that "You are a jew, therefore you are a terrorist supporter!". No way.
If anyone say "I'm a jew, therefore I think it's right what the Israel gouvernement is doing in the Palestinian occupied territories are correct!" he is certainly a bad example of the jewish people.
There are even christians who think that Israel have the right to kill Palestinian on random. They are too a bad example of a believer of a god of love.

But people are afraid to admit they are supporting the Israeli terrorist ideal. But anyone thinking that it is alright to kill Palestininas in their territory, then they actually are terrorist supporters.

Disclaimer: Yes, Hamas is not gods best children either, they have terrorist ideals too.
Disclaimer two: There are jews, a great number of them, who thinks the Israeli violence is wrong.

Do you support the actions of Israel?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
It would hold a little more water if the Holocaust of Hitler's Germany were the only time in history the Jews were singled out for their ethnic origins.

I for one think it holds plenty of water, and the fact that the Jews have been persecuted before and blow those persecutions way out of proportion too (as do Christians on their behalf) only strengthens his point.

Why do we not see a similar situation regarding black slavery in the US. Or maybe we do.

Originally posted by twhitehead
the fact that the Jews have been persecuted before and blow those persecutions way out of proportion too (as do Christians on their behalf) only strengthens his point.

Why do we not see a similar situation regarding black slavery in the US. Or maybe we do.

Exactly what "proportions" are you referring to?

Who gives a monkeys uncle what ethnic group it was (and before you attack me - my brand of Christianity does not have national or ethnic boundaries so Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Hindus, whatever, everyone is the same to me in this respect) - the fact is that the Nazi extermination of 11 million PEOPLE over a what, 4-5 year period, is unprecedented in documented modern history and represents a frightening example of what unchecked nationalism can become.
I find it equally disturbing and disgusting that you would refer to the global revulsion of this atrocity as being "blown out of proportion".

Originally posted by divegeester
Exactly what "proportions" are you referring to?

Who gives a monkeys uncle what ethnic group it was (and before you attack me - my brand of Christianity does not have national or ethnic boundaries so Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Hindus, whatever, everyone is the same to me in this respect) - the fact is that the Nazi extermination of 11 million PEOPLE ove ...[text shortened]... you would refer to the global revulsion of this atrocity as being "blown out of proportion".

It wasn't unprecedented -- just look at what the Belgians achieved in the Congo (estimates range up to 30 million), let alone Stalin's brilliant successes (20 million). But for some reason people in the West simply cared more about dead Jews than dead Africans or even Russians. (They didn't care all that much about the Roma, to judge by the treatment still being meted out to them in Europe).

This doesn't detract from the horror of the Shoah; it merely questions its special status.

Horror is the air we breathe.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
It wasn't unprecedented -- just look at what the Belgians achieved in the Congo (estimates range up to 30 million), let alone Stalin's brilliant successes (20 million). But for some reason people in the West simply cared more about dead Jews than dead Africans or even Russians. (They didn't care all that much about the Roma, to judge by the treatment s ...[text shortened]... orror of the Shoah; it merely questions its special status.

Horror is the air we breathe.

Thanks good perpective - assuming your numbers are correct. I'm wary of this underlying trend to minimise the WW11 atrocities just because of over publicity. "My atrocity is bigger than your atrocity" is the call, when really the spirit behind the argument sometimes feels like racism itself. The human race can be wicked beyond extreme - we are all capable of it.

Originally posted by divegeester
Thanks good perpective - assuming your numbers are correct. I'm wary of this underlying trend to minimise the WW11 atrocities just because of over publicity. "My atrocity is bigger than your atrocity" is the call, when really the spirit behind the argument sometimes feels like racism itself. The human race can be wicked beyond extreme - we are all capable of it.

Can't say I disagree.

Originally posted by divegeester
Who gives a monkeys uncle what ethnic group it was (and before you attack me - my brand of Christianity does not have national or ethnic boundaries so Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Hindus, whatever, everyone is the same to me in this respect) - the fact is that the Nazi extermination of 11 million PEOPLE over a what, 4-5 year period, is unprecedented in document ...[text shortened]... t you would refer to the global revulsion of this atrocity as being "blown out of proportion".

As pointed out by Bosse de Nage it was far from unprecedented and it wasn't the last such atrocity either. My reference to "blown out of proportion" has to do with the fact that the vast majority of people have hardly even heard of most of the other atrocities, but this one is the subject of frequent news, ongoing violence, politics, and even court cases. Have you ever heard of someone being imprisoned for denying any other atrocity took place?
The very fact that you called it unprecedented shows the extent to which it is so much better known than other similar events.
But then similar things go in in the far East where certain historical events between Japan, China, Korea and other countries in that area are frequently the subject of both denial and conflict.

Originally posted by scherzo
All around the Manhattan condo
Norman chased the Wiesel
Norman thought, 'twas all in fun, but
"ANTI-SEMITE!" goes the Wiesel

haha thx norman.

Ellie Wiesel, unlike your caricature of him, is a spokesperson for oppression of all peoples. He uses his experience under Nazism to raise the red flag about troubled spots elsewhere around the world so that another such genocide would not take place.

Someone needs to do that kind of whistle blowing. He is dedicated to it. Where he sees that Holocost like activities are brewing he says that that place must become for all of us the center of the universe.

I do not agree with your portrayal of him as only concerned with anti-semitism. That may be his tragic and powerful backround. But he uses it as a forum to condemn racism everywhere.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I for one think it holds plenty of water, and the fact that the Jews have been persecuted before and blow those persecutions way out of proportion too (as do Christians on their behalf) only strengthens his point.

Why do we not see a similar situation regarding black slavery in the US. Or maybe we do.

Proportion? I wish I could say you were kidding, but previous conversations with you prohibit me from such imagination.

I suppose that when one uses words in contrast to their normative meaning otherwise, such a concept as you suggest would make sense. For instance, in Hitler's Germany, the official stance was that the country suffered from a "Jewish Problem," for which they 'fortunately' had a "solution."

I guess when people use those types of words in place of words like "wipe out" and "push off the face of the planet" and "remove from the memory of all mankind," one could just as easily say that it is the Jew who was lost proper perspective.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
It wasn't unprecedented -- just look at what the Belgians achieved in the Congo (estimates range up to 30 million), let alone Stalin's brilliant successes (20 million). But for some reason people in the West simply cared more about dead Jews than dead Africans or even Russians. (They didn't care all that much about the Roma, to judge by the treatment s ...[text shortened]... orror of the Shoah; it merely questions its special status.

Horror is the air we breathe.

I think too many people see the problem as being an issue with the number of dead.

No, the number of dead isn't the greatest and I don't think that's the point either. I don't think it's a matter of the west caring more about jews - they certainly didn't when the holocaust was actually happening.

The real lessons of the holocaust have been clouded by people thinking it's about the number of people who died. Other mass murders and atrocities have their own lessons to be learned, but I doubt have been because people care more about the number dead.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
[b]I'm against all what Israel stands for. I never use the word jew, I always refer them to Israelis. Yet I sometimes I hear the word jew-hater.

What's it matter? Jew-hater/zionist hater. Either way you are a hater.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I'm against all what Israel stands for. I never use the word jew, I always refer them to Israelis.

So is it ok to generalize across all Israelis, but just not Jews?

Originally posted by whodey
What's it matter? Jew-hater/zionist hater. Either way you are a hater.

What do I care what religion they have? Is the phosphoric bombs painted 'Jewish bomb'? Are the bobms aimed at hospitals and ambulances having the text 'Jahve forever'? No, they are only bombs of terrorists, nothing more.

Are you telling me that the jewish people are terroristic in their nature? I don't. Certainly not.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
So is it ok to generalize across all Israelis, but just not Jews?

Every Israeli that support Israeli terror, yes.
Are there peaceful Israelis? Yes, of course. They want peace but are hindered from the terrorist of the Israeli governement. As long as the Israeli terror goes on, there will never be peace.