01 Apr 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasThat didn't completely answer the question, but it'll do.
Every Israeli that support Israeli terror, yes.
Are there peaceful Israelis? Yes, of course. They want peace but are hindered from the terrorist of the Israeli governement. As long as the Israeli terror goes on, there will never be peace.
I don't see the whole situation as being as one sided as most on this forum seem to, but I try not to get into it anymore since I haven't seen a single forum conversation about it amount to anything really. Not that many discussions do.
01 Apr 09
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Originally posted by FabianFnasIt is one thing to hate the policies of a particular country. In fact, I hate a few of the polices of my own, however, does that mean everyone associated with them, including myself, should be a target?
What do I care what religion they have? Is the phosphoric bombs painted 'Jewish bomb'? Are the bobms aimed at hospitals and ambulances having the text 'Jahve forever'? No, they are only bombs of terrorists, nothing more.
Are you telling me that the jewish people are terroristic in their nature? I don't. Certainly not.
My pastor recently came back from a trip to the Middle East. While there, he met with leaders of both the Israeli side and the Palastinian side. He attended a meeting where a Mufti gave a sermon on love within the Muslim world. It was a sort of answer and question session as well and my pastor asked the Mufti a question. He asked him how a bridge could be built to the Zionists. Especially in hind sight of sufferings such as the Holocaust and, even before that, being persecuted from country to country in Europe. The Mufti then became enraged and began yelling that the Holocaust was not as bad as people say. In fact, only a few hundred thousand died at best etc, etc. However, it did not take a genius to see what was in his heart. Then on the other end he was told by Israelis that the Palastinians were all a bunch of animals. There was no reasoning with them nor negotiating with them. My pastor then said on his way home that he was more convinced than ever that the only solution to the worlds problems was Jesus. Only his message of forgiveness and reconciliation was an answer. Everything else is bunk.
01 Apr 09
Originally posted by whodeyPeople with hate in their hearts cannot ever achieve peace. Their religion is not important.
It is one thing to hate the policies of a particular country. In fact, I hate a few of the polices of my own, however, does that mean everyone associated with them, including myself, should be a target?
My pastor recently came back from a trip to the Middle East. While there, he met with leaders of both the Israeli side and the Palastinian side. He atte ...[text shortened]... us. Only his message of forgiveness and reconciliation was an answer. Everything else is bunk.
People who see violence as a mean to solve problems cannot ever achieve peace. Their religion is not important.
01 Apr 09
Originally posted by FreakyKBHDo you have an actual argument as to why you disagree with me or are you simply going to feign disbelief and hope that constitutes an argument?
Proportion? I wish I could say you were kidding, but previous conversations with you prohibit me from such imagination.
Do you disagree that by any reasonable measure conceivable the Holocaust has received more publicity by proportion than any other similar atrocity - even to the extent of getting the word Holocaust specifically assigned to it?
If you do disagree then do you:
1. Disagree that it has received far more attention than any other atrocity
or
2. Believe that there was something about it that made it deserving of unique attention. If so then what is that? So far all you have said is that the previous suffering of the Jews is what makes it special. If that is your argument then can you substantiate that?
01 Apr 09
Originally posted by whodeyIt must be noted that the religion Jesus started is largely responsible for the situation. It must also be noted that Ghandi and Mandela have had far more success at actually achieving forgiveness and reconciliation than Jesus ever did. Jesus somehow managed to enrage people so much he got crucified for it.
My pastor then said on his way home that he was more convinced than ever that the only solution to the worlds problems was Jesus. Only his message of forgiveness and reconciliation was an answer. Everything else is bunk.
01 Apr 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasI despise the actions of Israel and I do admire the Jews who openly say that it is wrong.
I'm against all what Israel stands for. I never use the word jew, I always refer them to Israelis. Yet I sometimes I hear the word jew-hater.
I don't think jews are terrorist. I think the leards of Israel are. They use terror agaisnt Palestinians. They give order to bomb Palestinian schools, hospitals, ambulances, populated areas in random. Every one s ...[text shortened]... them, who thinks the Israeli violence is wrong.
Do you support the actions of Israel?
01 Apr 09
Originally posted by jaywillHe supports Israel. That is a racist, fascist action on his part. He labels everything that disagrees with Israel "Nazi" or "anti-Semitic." He is a money pit. I don't even know if his memoir is in any way true.
Ellie Wiesel, unlike your caricature of him, is a spokesperson for oppression of all peoples. He uses his experience under Nazism to raise the red flag about troubled spots elsewhere around the world so that another such genocide would not take place.
Someone needs to do that kind of whistle blowing. He is dedicated to it. Where he sees that Holocost lik ...[text shortened]... ay be his tragic and powerful backround. But he uses it as a forum to condemn racism everywhere.
01 Apr 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasThey are all part of an invasion.
Every Israeli that support Israeli terror, yes.
Are there peaceful Israelis? Yes, of course. They want peace but are hindered from the terrorist of the Israeli governement. As long as the Israeli terror goes on, there will never be peace.
01 Apr 09
Originally posted by scherzoHe supports Israel. That is a racist, fascist action on his part.
He supports Israel. That is a racist, fascist action on his part. He labels everything that disagrees with Israel "Nazi" or "anti-Semitic." He is a money pit. I don't even know if his memoir is in any way true.
The phrase "supports israel" is so vague it's ridiculous that you'd call that in itself to be racist.
He labels everything that disagrees with Israel "Nazi" or "anti-Semitic." He is a money pit.
Do you have any facts to actually back that claim up?
I don't even know if his memoir is in any way true
I don't even know if anything you say is any way true. You accuse him of lying when you have absolutely no rational basis to other than you disagree with his politics.
01 Apr 09
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Originally posted by PsychoPawn[/i]The phrase "supports israel" is so vague it's ridiculous that you'd call that in itself to be racist.
He supports Israel. That is a racist, fascist action on his part.
The phrase "supports israel" is so vague it's ridiculous that you'd call that in itself to be racist.
He labels everything that disagrees with Israel "Nazi" or "anti-Semitic." He is a money pit.
Do you have any facts to actually back that claim up?
[i]I don't even en you have absolutely no rational basis to other than you disagree with his politics.
Except Israel is not a race.
Do you have any facts to actually back that claim up?
Finkelstein: "For [Wiesel's] standard fee of $25,000 (plus chauffeured limousine), he lectures that the 'secret' of Aushwitz's 'truth lies in silence.'"
I don't even know if anything you say is any way true. You accuse him of lying when you have absolutely no rational basis to other than you disagree with his politics.
Again, Finkelstein:
"At the end of his memoir, [Wiesel] writes that upon being liberated from the camps, he 'read A Critique of Pure Reason - don't laugh! - in Yiddish.' Leaving aside Wiesel's comment earlier that he was 'wholly ignorant of Yiddish grammar,' A Critique of Pure Reason was never translated into Yiddish. ... Wiesel says that a priest 'mastered Hungarian in two weeks just to surprise me' ..."
It's in sections 2 and 3 of The Holocaust Industry. There was a controversial thread on this book in Debates a few months back, but rather than resorting to ad hominum attacks like his critics do to him, Finkelstein actually proves his assertions.
EDIT: got rid of italics
01 Apr 09
Originally posted by Bosse de NageYou want a change of air?
It wasn't unprecedented -- just look at what the Belgians achieved in the Congo (estimates range up to 30 million), let alone Stalin's brilliant successes (20 million). But for some reason people in the West simply cared more about dead Jews than dead Africans or even Russians. (They didn't care all that much about the Roma, to judge by the treatment s ...[text shortened]... orror of the Shoah; it merely questions its special status.
Horror is the air we breathe.
So do most of the people who spent their time documenting the Shoah and making sure people in many countries understand what made it especially horrible:
again, I think people here so far miss the point - Stalin didn't spoil a pair with Hitler in this regard, and Mao makes it three -- add in Pol Pot and you have a bridge game. All of them engaged in a deliberate state-sponsored program to exterminate whole categories of people based on religion, social or economic class, or ethnic origin.
Alone among all these, the Nazis performed this task on and among the most highly educated, civilized peoples in the world -- thus giving the lie to the vaunted superiority of European standards of civilized conduct.
I'd watch the Hungarians and other Eastern European peoples right now and see just how well they behave now that hard times have come.
I'd lay odds that many of these peoples will resort to scapegoating and a lot of violence will result against whoever or whatever is branded as blameworthy.
01 Apr 09
Originally posted by whodeyI'd prefer Buddha as the answer - not as a prophet and certainly not as some sort of human-created "divinity." If you worshipped Hercules or Apollo or Zeus, it would amount to the same thing.
It is one thing to hate the policies of a particular country. In fact, I hate a few of the polices of my own, however, does that mean everyone associated with them, including myself, should be a target?
My pastor recently came back from a trip to the Middle East. While there, he met with leaders of both the Israeli side and the Palastinian side. He atte ...[text shortened]... us. Only his message of forgiveness and reconciliation was an answer. Everything else is bunk.
Whereas, Buddhism is a philosophy under which forgiveness and compassion and right conduct based on an increased awareness of reality would serve us all quite well.
01 Apr 09
another thing that makes the Shoah unique and worthy of the attn it has gotten:
it was the most barbaric yet systematic, scientifically executed program of mass extermination ever conceived.
Nothing Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot concocted matched it, nor all the mass bombings by the US and its Allies and the Luftwaffe.
The Shoah is used, indeed, for political purposes. Here in the USA it is used openly to educate, make people aware, and PREVENT ANYTHING LIKE IT from happening HERE.
I'm glad there is a museum here in Wash DC.
I'm even more glad there is one in Dallas, Texas.
There are a lot of places in this country and other countries as well where such a museum would serve to open people's eyes to the barbarism that governments and passive, complicit populations can perpetrate.
The only way to prevent this sort of thing is to make it known.
Perhaps that is why every synagogue in Washington DC and its surrounding suburbs has a large sign in front that says: Stop the Genocide in Darfur.
01 Apr 09
Originally posted by ScriabinStalin matched the level of evil and exceeded it. I don't know what you're talking about. Even as a dedicated Marxist/Leninist myself, I find Stalin atrocious.
another thing that makes the Shoah unique and worthy of the attn it has gotten:
it was the most barbaric yet systematic, scientifically executed program of mass extermination ever conceived.
Nothing Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot concocted matched it, nor all the mass bombings by the US and its Allies and the Luftwaffe.
The Shoah is used, indeed, for poli ...[text shortened]... nd its surrounding suburbs has a large sign in front that says: Stop the Genocide in Darfur.
01 Apr 09
Originally posted by scherzoof course you don't know what I'm talking about -- what a surprise.
Stalin matched the level of evil and exceeded it. I don't know what you're talking about. Even as a dedicated Marxist/Leninist myself, I find Stalin atrocious.
you have admitted, therefore, that you are either unpardonably ignorant of history OR, more likely, simply pathologically incapable of recognizing or telling the truth.
I've concluded the latter because you seem quite divorced from reality, very much a paranoid personality.
Tell us, what do the voices in your head say to you?