1. Joined
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    31 Jan '09 11:572 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Christianity will become useless in the next age.
    Amen to that.

    Who needs an "anity" when you have Christ Himself?

    As for the money thing, I suggest "In God some of us trust."
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    31 Jan '09 17:51
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Christianity will become useless in the next age.
    Christianity is already useless.

    The teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, however, have an eternal value to me. I certainly understand if others don't see it that way.
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    01 Feb '09 13:131 edit
    Originally posted by Badwater
    Christianity is already useless.

    The teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, however, have an eternal value to me. I certainly understand if others don't see it that way.
    Religions, in general, are not useless altogether. They can act as a kind of preservative for society. That is to prevent people from running wild. Proverbs says "Without a vision the people run wild." They can add some structure and preservation in times of social disintergration.

    Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Bahai, Judaism, Confucianism, ..., any of these major world religions can act to preserve people from social chaos. There are exceptions of tragic contradiction to this.
  4. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    01 Feb '09 14:02
    Originally posted by realeyez
    This is the spiritual chat room. You are you even in here. You don't believe in spiritual. As far as the motto goes, if it is not hurting you get over it. If you don't like it give away all your money so that you don't have it on you, then you can't complain about it. Just use credit
    A spirituality forum (it's not a chat room) is for discussing things pertaining to spirituality, whether that be pro or con. It is not relegated to any particular spiritual viewpoint. The motto is hurting me, as it clearly violates the Constitution and designates me as a second class citizen. The Federal government has no business endorsing any god or gods.
  5. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    01 Feb '09 14:06
    Originally posted by dystoniac
    Why should your disbelief in God change the money that has been this way since 1864? Since you disbelieve in a deity, simply avoid gazing at the mesmerizing words In God We Trust as a vampire would avoid sunshine.
    The motto only started appearing in 1864. As I said before, it didn't appear on the currency until 1957. Why should I be expected to avert my gaze from a clear violation of the Constitution?
  6. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    01 Feb '09 14:16
    Originally posted by dystoniac
    You have a point...most Americans claim to be 'spiritual' (whatever that means), but they only believe in God on Sundays. Most of humanity are 'spiritual' hippocrites.
    And most religious people are sanctimonious hypocrites.
  7. Cape Town
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    01 Feb '09 19:26
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Religions, in general, are not useless altogether. They can act as a kind of preservative for society. That is to prevent people from running wild. Proverbs says [b]"Without a vision the people run wild." They can add some structure and preservation in times of social disintergration.

    Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Bahai, Judaism, Confuci ...[text shortened]... to preserve people from social chaos. There are exceptions of tragic contradiction to this.[/b]
    So you essentially agree with the guy who said "religion is the opium of the people."?
    Do you also support the promotion of drugs to keep people under control?
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    01 Feb '09 20:411 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    So you essentially agree with the guy who said "religion is the opium of the people."?
    Do you also support the promotion of drugs to keep people under control?
    what i think jaywill was saying is that the application of religious principles should make one a more useful member of society, that is of course if the principles are sound, it is you on the other hand that are steering it towards political ground with Marxist comments, an individual who i hasten to add, neglected his own family in order to give attention to the exposition of his theory! a consequence of which his family would have been spared if he applied certain guiding principles found in religious texts which he seemed so adamant to reject!
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    01 Feb '09 20:43
    Originally posted by rwingett
    And most religious people are sanctimonious hypocrites.
    I don't think you can limit it to the realms of the religious!
  10. Cape Town
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    02 Feb '09 05:16
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    what i think jaywill was saying is that the application of religious principles should make one a more useful member of society, that is of course if the principles are sound, it is you on the other hand that are steering it towards political ground with Marxist comments, an individual who i hasten to add, neglected his own family in order to give at ...[text shortened]... pplied certain guiding principles found in religious texts which he seemed so adamant to reject!
    So you believe that Jawill believes that the guiding principles in the following religions are sound: Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Bahai, Judaism, Confucianism?
    As far as I know Buddhists and Confucianists are more or less atheist.

    What I don't see is how any discussion of society and methods of making society work can be divorced from politics. I did not say jawill was Marxist but do wonder whether he too considers religion to be a method for keeping people under control. I personally think it is abundantly clear that many leaders worldwide have used religion to gain political support. I know for a fact that Zambian presidents do so. The most blatant one was Chiluba who had the Churches lining up for bribes. Its really quite sad when a Church starts fighting over a bribe (usually it starts with the pastor keeping it for himself and the congregation not liking that idea.)
  11. Standard memberrandolph
    the walrus
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    02 Feb '09 05:29
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    So you essentially agree with the guy who said "religion is the opium of the people."?
    Do you also support the promotion of drugs to keep people under control?
    "that guy" was utterly misrepresented when he said that.
  12. Cape Town
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    02 Feb '09 05:34
    Originally posted by randolph
    "that guy" was utterly misrepresented when he said that.
    Quite possibly, I for one certainly do not know the context of the comment. However, nearly everyone knows that its quite true that religion is frequently used to keep people under control, and that people appear to be rather irrationally addicted to religion.
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    02 Feb '09 10:46
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    So you believe that Jawill believes that the guiding principles in the following religions are sound: Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Bahai, Judaism, Confucianism?
    As far as I know Buddhists and Confucianists are more or less atheist.

    What I don't see is how any discussion of society and methods of making society work can be divorced from pol ...[text shortened]... ly it starts with the pastor keeping it for himself and the congregation not liking that idea.)
    im sorry but if they are not following the teachings of Christ, they are not Christian, i don't care what they claim, they are not Christian. in fact Christ himself gave an excellent example in his illustration of the wheat and the weeds, Mathew chapter 13.

    Another illustration he set before them, saying: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’”.............

    Then after dismissing the crowds he went into the house. And his disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.” In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man;  the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness

    the illustration shows that there would be many who were professed Christians but were nothing of the sort, for they are engaged in lawless acts! the term, 'weeds', is taken from a plant assumed to be bearded darnel, a plant that looks identical to wheat but is in fact poisonous, and its not until reaping time that it is apparent. We can have confidence though that Christ will see to these injustices!
  14. Cape Town
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    02 Feb '09 11:25
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    im sorry but if they are not following the teachings of Christ, they are not Christian, i don't care what they claim, they are not Christian. in fact Christ himself gave an excellent example in his illustration of the wheat and the weeds, Mathew chapter 13.
    I didn't call them Christian, but generally I do call anyone who professes to be Christian a Christian. I find people who use the term to mean 'my kind of Christian' just create confusion as it makes it practically impossible to communicate with anyone who is not your 'kind of Christian'.

    Also, in light of your comments, do you then disagree with jawills suggestion that religion makes a person a better member of society. Remember that he was talking about religion in general including atheistic ones - certainly not exclusively 'True Christians'.

    Is there any evidence at all that someone like me who has no real religion is more likely to be a bad member of society than someone who follows a religion?
    Is there any evidence that societies whos majority members are also members or religions do any better than societies who's members are not members of religions?
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    02 Feb '09 11:421 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I didn't call them Christian, but generally I do call anyone who professes to be Christian a Christian. I find people who use the term to mean 'my kind of Christian' just create confusion as it makes it practically impossible to communicate with anyone who is not your 'kind of Christian'.

    Also, in light of your comments, do you then disagree with jawil rs or religions do any better than societies who's members are not members of religions?
    mmm, no i do not think that there is any evidence, not that i am aware of, on the contrary, for you also are endowed with a natural sense of justice, the capacity to give and receive love, to exercise your free will irrespective of your religious inclinations or otherwise, this principle is also highlighted in scripture, which i produce, not because im preaching at you, that would never do, just to illustrate the point.

    For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.

    thus in the absence of any guiding religious principles, people naturally have a sense of these things. i would go as far to say, that many religious principles supersede this natural exercise of conscience and people commit atrocities because of religious zeal! how else can we explain such things? however the role of religion should be to enhance and bring even more to the fore these qualities, thus a person should be come more self sacrificing, or loving or whatever, not to say that it does not exist among non religious persons, but it may be cultivated amoung those who are not naturally inclined in this way, thus we read of Gangsters and such becoming reformed because of some religious devotion.
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