In Hell

Originally posted by Scriabin
says who

Says God. Please read the Bible. I reckon I'm gonna have to start quoting scripture.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
We don't get into heaven because we glorify God, more specifically we get into heaven because we have faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Right?

That is correct, but by believing in Jesus Christ one glorifies God.

Originally posted by dystoniac
All humans, and you can deny all you want, have a yearning in their heart and soul that is constantly seeking for something...something that is missing life. No matter how wealthy or famous one becomes in this life, there is always something missing...that something is a relationship with with God. God alone can fill this void. Nothing can fill it. God ...[text shortened]... omplete until we bridge the gap that separates us from God, and that 'bridge' is Jesus Christ.

I have only been an atheist for ~2 years. Before that I was a Christian...went to church, prayed, had a relationship with something I thought was God, got baptized, studied the Bible, prayed some more...the whole nine. I did this for 15 years. I know more about the Bible than most Christians I meet, and spent the last ~7 of those years desperately searching for a reason to continue being a Christian. Never found one...

Did not feel a yearning then (at least, not for God), and I certainly don't feela yearning now. I realize you will not be able to accept this fact as it would destroy your belief system (and who wants to deal with a mess like that on a Friday night?), but it is the absolute truth.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
[b]bizarro-love n.
1. The state of caring about someone so much that you will subject them to eternal anguish and torment if they refuse to love you back.[/b]

Please show me the passage in the Bible that says God will condemn a person to damnation because he will not love God back.

I don't see that any more than I see worldly judge theatening to put the murderer in jail because he doesn't love the judge back.

Justification by faith I see. I do not see justification by love.

Your view is warped.

Originally posted by jaywill
Please show me the passage in the Bible that says God will condemn a person to damnation because he will not love God back.

I don't see that any more than I see worldly judge theatening to put the murderer in jail because he doesn't love the judge back.

Justification by [b]faith I see. I do not see justification by love.

Your view is warped.[/b]

Matthew 22:37-38

And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.

I wonder what happens to you if you don't follow this commandment?

The New Testament says that the one who is forgiven much loves much.

It does not say that the one who loves much is forgiven much.

Some people have a warped idea that eternal punishment is assigned because God did not secure the sinner's love. This is a kind of "revenge for not loving God" theory.


John 3:16 stresses that man should believe that he might have eternal life. Many of us did not love God that much at all when we first believed and were saved.

Your sins are a legal matter. Love does not justify your sins. Belief in what Christ has done leads to justification whether you love God or not.

Of course realizing that one has been forgiven a great deal should spark love in the heart. But forgiveness seems to preceed love and not the other way around.

Beware of those attempting to warp the message of the Gospel.

Originally posted by TheSkipper
Matthew 22:37-38

And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.

I wonder what happens to you if you don't follow this commandment?

===============================
Matthew 22:37-38

And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.

I wonder what happens to you if you don't follow this commandment?
===================================

If you do not believe in Christ as the Gospel commands us to do, loving God with all your heart will not justify you.

This passage does say that God commands our love. It does not say that because we do not love we cannot be justified from the guilt of our transgression of His law.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]===============================
Matthew 22:37-38

And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.

I wonder what happens to you if you don't follow this commandment?
===================================

...[text shortened]... at because we do not love we cannot be justified from the guilt of our transgrssion of His law.[/b]

In other words...if we choose NOT to love God...we will wind up in hell, right?

EDIT: wait...huh? Could you rephrase that? The last sentence is kinda awkward.

EDIT2: Okay, your next message cleared it up. Thank you.

Originally posted by TheSkipper
In other words...if we choose NOT to love God...we will wind up in hell, right?

If you reject Christ you will burn.

If you believe in Christ though your heart is cold towards God, you will be saved.

The day will probably come when you realize how much He has done for you. In that time your love will probably grow. But faith has come beforehand that you might be saved.

It is OK to confess to God "Lord Jesus, I just do not love You. I love other things more than You."

I find that God usually accepts an honest prayer. If you cannot bring yourself to love Christ, do not let that stop you from being saved. Tell God that you believe in Christ the Savior though you do not love Him.

It is whoseoever BELIEVES shall not perish. (John 3:16).

Of course if you believe AND love God that is good. But the Gospel commands us to BELIEVE.

Someone might object that "Faith works through love".

Originally posted by jaywill
If you reject Christ you will burn.

If you believe in Christ though your heart is cold towards God, you will be saved.

The day will probably come when you realize how much He has done for you. In that time your love will probably grow. But faith has come beforehand that you might be saved.

It is OK to confess to God [b]"Lord Jesus, I just do no el commands us to BELIEVE.

Someone might object that [b]"Faith works through love".[/b]

[/b]Then what is the point of the commandment in question?

Originally posted by TheSkipper
Then what is the point of the commandment in question?[/b]

The point of the commandment is to grow in your relationship with God.

Being saved meets your need not to spend eternity in the fire. But that is not all that God needs. He desires a kingdom. And to live in that kingdom under that Divine reign mutual love is essential.

It is not that once you are saved from damnation forever there is nothing else in God's will for you.

Look, does the baby born LOVE its begetting mother very much ? It learns to love the mother and grows into maturity.

Being born alone is not the end all. Growth and maturity should follow birth.

Being forgiven of past sins is only the beginning of the relationship. Love is required for development, growth, maturity. Forgiveness is not the END. It is only the beginning.

Forgiveness secures your escape from damnation. But love and transformation builds His kingdom.

How 'bout a for instance, eh?

On the day of Pentacost, Peter gave the first inspired sermon of the New Testament Church to a bucnh of people in Jerusalem. Those people, after having listened to Peter became convicted for their part in having just killed the messiah so they asked Peter (and some of the other Apostles I suppose: Acts 2:37 "Men and bretheren, what shall we do?"

Now - according to your theology - this is the perfect opportunity for Peter to say "just believe". But what does he do? Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Sounds to me like you have some sort of beef with Peter in this respect, you might want to look into that.

Originally posted by TheSkipper
I have only been an atheist for ~2 years. Before that I was a Christian...went to church, prayed, had a relationship with something I thought was God, got baptized, studied the Bible, prayed some more...the whole nine. I did this for 15 years. I know more about the Bible than most Christians I meet, and spent the last ~7 of those years desperately search ...[text shortened]... (and who wants to deal with a mess like that on a Friday night?), but it is the absolute truth.

Hey, man, I hear ya!! I used to be an agnostic teetering on the verge of atheism. I literally shredded Bibles because of my frustration at not having God hear my prayers. The only thing I can say about your situation is that God was testing you. Remeber, if you will, that the Israelites were in the desert for 40 years not really knowing why, but Moses kept reminding them "all in good time". When the 40 years had passeed, God showed Moses that He was faithful on His promise to Moses and the Israelites. I wish I had an answer for you, but I don't, except to say that maybe you weren't ready for God at that time. Godis patient. I pray that you try again, and maybe with some maturity, God will respond. Just because God doesn't answer our prayers doesn't mean he is unaware. God knows when a sparrow falls to the ground.

Originally posted by jaywill
The point of the commandment is to grow in your relationship with God.

Being saved meets your need not to spend eternity in the fire. But that is not all that God needs. He desires a kingdom. And to live in that kingdom under that Divine reign mutual love is essential.

It is not that once you are saved from damnation forever there is nothing else in ...[text shortened]... Forgiveness secures your escape from damnation. But love and transformation builds His kingdom.

Yeah, I get it. But what i want to know is: Is it, or is it not possible for me to believe in Christ, but never love him, and find myself in heaven when its all over?

Originally posted by dystoniac
Hey, man, I hear ya!! I used to be an agnostic teetering on the verge of atheism. I literally shredded Bibles because of my frustration at not having God hear my prayers. The only thing I can say about your situation is that God was testing you. Remeber, if you will, that the Israelites were in the desert for 40 years not really knowing why, but Moses ...[text shortened]... wer our prayers doesn't mean he is unaware. God knows when a sparrow falls to the ground.

Yeah, when I prayed my last prayer I told God that I sought but didn't find so if he wants me he is going to have to do the seeking next time, and I promise not to be so blasted hard to find as he proved to be.

So, yeah, if God comes a-knockin' I'll answer, but until then he will remain an object of mass delusion as far as I'm concerned.