1. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    13 May '05 21:102 edits
    You have to admit that you; your mother and father; your children; Mother Theresa; every President we've ever had in the U.S.; Ghandhi; Martin Luther King Jr.; and everyone else who has ever existed; is a vile, evil person who really, really deserves horrific, eternal torture. This is a torture worse than being raped, worse than being immersed in acid, worse than anything any of the characters in the movies Seven or Silence of the Lambs or Hannibal went through; all these people are so vile and evil that they deserve these things. This is what it means to call yourself a Christian.

    Do you Christians really realize what this means? Do you realize the insult you're giving to your kids, your love, your parents, and all the heroes of history?
  2. Earth Prime
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    13 May '05 22:13
    True. Many people are insulted by our beliefs.

    There is no scale. One is either perfect, or sinful, and God cannot be with the sinful. Fortunately he provided a way out, or we all would have to pay for our sins by ourselves through eternal damnation, but Jesus can do it for us, meaning once again we can be perfect in God's eyes.

    I don't think it is right for you to tell us it is our fault we insult people by this. These truths were written by writers inspired by God, nobody but the creator "made them up." Because he is the creator, he can.
  3. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    13 May '05 22:33
    Originally posted by Coconut
    True. Many people are insulted by our beliefs.

    There is no scale. One is either perfect, or sinful, and God cannot be with the sinful. Fortunately he provided a way out, or we all would have to pay for our sins by ourselves through eternal damnation, but Jesus can do it for us, meaning once again we can be perfect in God's eyes.

    I don't think it is ...[text shortened]... ers inspired by God, nobody but the creator "made them up." Because he is the creator, he can.
    God is insulted by the belief the He is such a petty, mean spirited god, So insecure that he would punish decent people for not worshiping him, quite analogous to a jealous boyfriend that stalks and eventually kills a woman for rejecting him.

    That isn't anything like Christ , is it?

    Think about it, read what Christ has to say.
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
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    13 May '05 22:351 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    You have to admit that you; your mother and father; your children; Mother Theresa; every President we've ever had in the U.S.; Ghandhi; Martin Luther King Jr.; and everyone else who has ever existed; is a vile, evil person who reall ...[text shortened]... your kids, your love, your parents, and all the heroes of history?
    If you define a Christian by someone who follows the words of Jesus as outlined in the Gospels, I don't think you'll find much support for the "vile" and "depraved" theory of human nature. The Sermon on the Mount doesn't sound like it was addressed to people He knew were vile. The fundies on this site are not representative of most Christians; they hold extreme beliefs rejected by the vast majority. That's probably why they feel the need to scream over and over that they are saved and everyone else is going to Hell. Most Christians I know don't hold to those beliefs or engage in the self-righteous back patting that punks like RBHILL, blindfaith, Darfius, etc. etc. do. You are getting a deranged view of Christianity from these people; try looking into more moderate statements of faith and you may be surprised.
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    13 May '05 22:37
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    You have to admit that you; your mother and father; your children; Mother Theresa; every President we've ever had in the U.S.; Ghandhi; Martin Luther King Jr.; and everyone else who has ever existed; is a vile, evil person who really, really deserves horrific, eternal torture. This is a torture worse than being raped, worse than being immerse ...[text shortened]... the insult you're giving to your kids, your love, your parents, and all the heroes of history?
    The only real solid belief of christianity is to love your neighbour and to not judge others Moses spoke the law, Jesus spoke the truth, Christianity is based on the revelation of Jesus). Why does this offend poeple?
  6. Earth Prime
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    13 May '05 22:39
    Perfect example.

    "For I am a jealous God."

    We often seem to forget the one factor that brings it all together. God made everyone. He has every right to expect our praise, worship, trust, hearts, and prayers. He wants to be with everyone, but the alternative to being with God is torture, and he won't be with sin.

    If God cries, I'm sure he does every single time someone dies and didn't come to be saved.
  7. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    13 May '05 23:41
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    The only real solid belief of christianity is to love your neighbour and to not judge others Moses spoke the law, Jesus spoke the truth, Christianity is based on the revelation of Jesus). Why does this offend poeple?
    try reading what "christians" have been saying in these threads.

    Its the distortion of Christ's message that offends people.

  8. Standard membertelerion
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    13 May '05 23:48
    God cannot be with the sinful.

    Was Jesus God? Didn't he hang out with us sinners here on Earth? Didn't God and the Devil have a little tea time in the book of Job?

    Is it that God cannot be with the sinful or is it that he chooses not to be with the sinful?

    BTW Jesus never went through eternal damnation. He only did it for three days.

    Because he is the creator, he can.

    Oh, I see so he's not responsible for his actions huh?
  9. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    13 May '05 23:492 edits
    Originally posted by Coconut
    True. Many people are insulted by our beliefs.

    There is no scale. One is either perfect, or sinful, and God cannot be with the sinful. Fortunately he provided a way out, or we all would have to pay for our sins by ourselves through eter ...[text shortened]... t the creator "made them up." Because he is the creator, he can.
    "Fortunately he provided a way out."

    We're all welfare recipients? It's interesting how most Christians seem to think welfare is wrong and that people should "pull themselves up by their bootstraps". At least that's the stereotype in the U.S.

    Whether or not there is a way out of the consequences, the fact is that you believe your mother and your children deserve these things. You are a sick person.

    Jesus can do it for us, meaning once again we can be perfect in God's eyes.

    The idea that a vile, filthy criminal can be pardoned by the judge torturing his son (the judge's son) is bizaare.

    I don't think it is right for you to tell us it is our fault we insult people by this. These truths were written by writers inspired by God, nobody but the creator "made them up." Because he is the creator, he can.

    These possible truths were written by writers who you think were inspired by God, because you prefer to believe this than other similar claims made by people of other religions.
  10. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    13 May '05 23:52
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    If you define a Christian by someone who follows the words of Jesus as outlined in the Gospels, I don't think you'll find much support for the "vile" and "depraved" theory of human nature. The Sermon on the Mount doesn't sound like it was addressed to people He knew were vile. The fundies on this site are not representative of most Christia ...[text shortened]... from these people; try looking into more moderate statements of faith and you may be surprised.
    Well, if other Christians don't agree with this - then why was Christ necessary in their view? What did he do? What was so amazing about him?
  11. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    13 May '05 23:531 edit
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    The only real solid belief of christianity is to love your neighbour and to not judge others Moses spoke the law, Jesus spoke the truth, Christianity is based on the revelation of Jesus). Why does this offend poeple?
    I thought Christianity was defined by accepting that Jesus died for your sins, keeping you from having to pay for them yourself. Am I mistaken?
  12. Standard membertelerion
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    13 May '05 23:55
    We often seem to forget the one factor that brings it all together. God made everyone. He has every right to expect our praise, worship, trust, hearts, and prayers. He wants to be with everyone, but the alternative to being with God is torture, and he won't be with sin.

    Did you copy this straight from a teen devotional guide? 'We often seem to forget?' give me a break. From where does this right to be worshiped come? You see if there is a rule that says that he has this right, then he wrote the rule himself which puts you back where we started: God is insecure and petty.

    If God cries, I'm sure he does every single time someone dies and didn't come to be saved.

    He knew before he made the person that they would go to Hell. He created Hell originally with that person in mind. Why should he cry over it? Maybe he has multiple personality disorder.
  13. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    13 May '05 23:59
    Originally posted by Coconut
    Perfect example.

    "For I am a jealous God."

    We often seem to forget the one factor that brings it all together. God made everyone. He has every right to expect our praise, worship, trust, hearts, and prayers. He wants to be with everyone, but the alternative to being with God is torture, and he won't be with sin.

    If God cries, I'm sure he does every single time someone dies and didn't come to be saved.
    He has every right to expect our praise, worship, trust, hearts, and prayers.

    Just because he supposedly created people? He even hides from us so that he can be REALLY sure that we love him so much we will deny our reason to do all this.

    If God cries, I'm sure he does every single time someone dies and didn't come to be saved.

    You think God prioritizes our bowing down to him and accepting what he supposedly says against reason (when he could choose to make his existence clear) over saving us from torture.

    An analogy; suppose that you were told by a particular gang that your son would get horribly tortured if he went into a certain neighborhood. Suppose they sent you a letter covered in fingerprints. Now, you tell your son this, but you refuse to either show him the letter or give it to the police, because you value your son trusting your word without any doubt over protecting him from pain. That's how I see your view of God, and I think that it's sick.
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
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    14 May '05 01:28
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Well, if other Christians don't agree with this - then why was Christ necessary in their view? What did he do? What was so amazing about him?
    You are changing your argument. In your first post, you asserted that Christians MUST believe that "everyone else who has ever existed; is a vile, evil person who really, really deserves horrific, eternal torture". This is simply not so; most Christians believe Man is imperfect and prone to sin, but not that that people are "vile and evil" and "deserve eternal torture". That extremist view is the realm of extreme wings of Protestant thought (and Protestants themselves are a minority of Christians). So you are claiming that a minority of a minority represent ALL Christian thought.

    My theology is rusty, but given that all Men will sin due to their imperfect (NOT vile and evil) nature, Christ died for all the sins that Man will and has committed. He also left his teaching demanding that Christians treat their family human beings with charity and kindness; good works are required for salvation. His resurrection shows that all men may have eternal life if they live a life according to Jesus' precepts. Beyond those basics, I really can't go. I'm sure that others could direct you to relevant statements of the faith that do not assume that Man has an "evil" and "vile" nature and "deserves eternal torture". I'll look around, but it ain't my speciality; maybe Kirksey or Nemesio could point you in the direction of such statements better than I can.
  15. Subscriberno1marauder
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    14 May '05 01:42
    I found this site which gives a good overview of "Liberal Christianity". http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/18861/seminar I like this passage in particular, but the whole article is worth a read:


    Those who take the greatest exception to the influence of Fundamentalist Christian thinking differ with a literalist "black/white" and "either/or" way of perceiving reality.

    A literal reading of the Bible as an inerrant and absolute divine document that contains multiple references to an ultimate judgment and divine wrath against sinners seems to lead inevitably to a highly judgmental and critical Christian society. Liberal Christians resist and reject this approach.

    Does the second paragraph remind you of anybody???

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