04 Mar 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterThen the blooming trinity is garbage .. simple.
The problem he will have is reconciling that simplicity with the complexity of the trinity doctrine.
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04 Mar 18
Originally posted by @rajk999If you walked into a room where God was receiving visitors, how many people would be in the room to greet you...one or three?
Then the blooming trinity is garbage .. simple.
Therein lies the whole nonsense of the trinity.
04 Mar 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterAnd sonship would be there trying to convince people its three.
If you walked into a room where God was receiving visitors, how many people would be in the room to greet you...one or three?
Therein lies the whole nonsense of the trinity.
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It makes no sense that the Son of God would not be eternal but the sons of God would be forever/
Before God created the universe He had in His heart to have many sons. Based upon this plan He laid the foundation of the world, He created creation.
" Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, Predestinating us to SONSHIP through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of his will." (Ephesians 1:4,5)
If God's good pleasure was to have sons forever, would He only be THE Son of God temporarily to produce them? No. As forevermore, after their salvation as THEY are so also THE Firstborn Son of God is so for eternity.
Both the Son Who is mass produced as the standard model and the sons with "sonship" are for eternity.
What the Trinity is can never be separated from what the Trinity does.
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Christ leads many sons into the divine expression of God united with man.
"For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and through whom are all things, in leading many sons into glory, to make the Author of their salvation perfect through suffering." (Hebrews 2:10)
The Son - THROUGH Whom all things were created -
The Son - FOR Whom all things were created -
The Firstborn Son leads many sons into the glorious expression of God and man mingled.
Yet some heretics propose that THE Son will go away but the sons remain forever. This is shortsighted foolishness of the religious mind.
The Son through whom all was created and for whom all was created is eternal.
His name is Jesus which is Greek for JOSHUA, the general who led the army of Jehovah into the Promise Land.
He comes again as the Firstborn Son of many brothers -
"And when He brings again the Firstborn into the inhabited earth, ..." (Hebrews 1:6a)
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Of course there are other reasons why we know the Son of God is eternal.
1.) The Holy Spirit is given to the believers FOREVER.
That means the Third of the Trinity is eternal.
2.) The Holy Spirit is the Second of the Trinity in another form. So the Second of the Trinity is AS eternal.
1.) The Holy Spirit is for eternity.
" And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you FOREVER, Even the Spirit of reality, ..." (John 14:15,16a)
2.) The eternal Spirit is the Son in another form.
" ... even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him;
but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you.
I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you." (John 14:16b-18)
The "He" Who was with them and is coming to be in them, suddenly becomes the "I" Who is coming to them not leaving them as orphans.
This proves that the Spirit of truth is Christ in another form.
And if He is with them forever then both the Spirit and the Son of God are eternal.
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Another absolute defeat of Unitarianism is that the Son is eternal because in the Son is eternal life.
If one no longer has the Son then one would no longer have the eternal life which is IN the Son. So to have eternal life the Son must be eternal.
" ... God gave to us eternal life and this life is in His Son.
He who has the Son has the life, he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. " (1 John 5:11b,12)
If the Son is not eternal then a point would come when no one HAS the Son of God. Not having the Son of God they would then not have eternal life.
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The error of Unitarianism may be avoided by realizing that the Son and the Father Who sent Him are "the true God and eternal life" .
I said, both the Son in whom the believers are and the Father Who sent the Son are "the true God and eternal life".
Read it carefully and repeatedly a few times:
"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we might know Him who is true and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life." (1 John 5:20)
This actually amounts to saying that the Trinity is the true God and eternal life.
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05 Mar 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterIt’s interesting that the body He had post Resurrection still had wounds from the crucifixion.
Jesus flesh was born, killed 33 years later, then transfigured (presumably into something more compatible with eternal glory) before the ascension. So, yes.
No doubt this is incompatible with your preconceptions.
“Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
(John 20:19-29)
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05 Mar 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @romans1009Why?
It’s interesting that the body He had post Resurrection still had wounds from the crucifixion.
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05 Mar 18
2 edits
The Son of God is eternal within and without.
Within the saved the Son is eternal because He became in resurrection a life giving Spirit.
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
1.) To have eternal life one must have the life giving Spirit for eternity. And that Spirit is the last Adam in another form. He will give life for eternity to the saved.
2.) The Spirit is "the eternal Spirit." (Hebrews 9:14)
"How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God." (Heb. 9:14)
Incidently, ThinkOfOne stresses dead works.
Within the Son is eternal being the eternal life.
Without the Son is eternal for He ever lives to intercede that men and women be saved to the uttermost extent.
"But He [the Son as a High Priest] because He abides FOREVER, has His priesthood unalterable.
Hence also He is able to save to the uttermost those who come forward to God through Him, since He lives always to intercede for them." (Hebrews 7:24,25)
Christ is the eternal Son of God.
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05 Mar 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterBecause it shows the Resurrection did not heal all of the wounds associated with the crucifixion (and may not have healed any) and that the post-Resurrection body was not “new.”
Why?
05 Mar 18
Originally posted by @romans1009LOL
Because it shows the Resurrection did not heal all of the wounds associated with the crucifixion (and may not have healed any) and that the post-Resurrection body was not “new.”