1. SubscriberFMF
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    09 Sep '14 05:34
    From a document I am looking at here: "The Indonesian Council of Ulema (MUI), signed a fatwa or edict, on January 22, 2014 requiring the country’s 200 million Muslims to take an active role in protecting threatened species including tigers, rhinos, elephants and orangutans. The fatwa is the first of its kind in the world and it is accompanied by plans for education awareness programs to help local communities put it into practice."

    Is this a positive step for a religious organisation to be talking?

    How does your spirituality inform your attitude to collective action to protect threatened species?
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    09 Sep '14 06:29
    Originally posted by FMF
    From a document I am looking at here: "The Indonesian Council of Ulema (MUI), signed a fatwa or edict, on January 22, 2014 requiring the country’s 200 million Muslims to take an active role in protecting threatened species including tigers, rhinos, elephants and orangutans. The fatwa is the first of its kind in the world and it is accompanied by plans for educat ...[text shortened]... does your spirituality inform your attitude to collective action to protect threatened species?
    Isn't a "fatwa" a holy war?
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    09 Sep '14 06:30
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Isn't a "fatwa" a holy war?
    No. It's a ruling on a point of Islamic law that is given by a recognized authority.
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    09 Sep '14 06:40
    Originally posted by FMF
    No. It's a ruling on a point of Islamic law that is given by a recognized authority.
    Then this must be a really good thing isn't it...or am I missing something?
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    09 Sep '14 06:43
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Then this must be a really good thing isn't it...or am I missing something?
    Do you think this kind of thing belongs in a religious organisation's job description, as it were?
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    09 Sep '14 06:511 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Do you think this kind of thing belongs in a religious organisation's job description, as it were?
    I find this a refreshing change from the usual fountain of hate and death typically assosiated with "fatwas". However it is a disturbing reminder of the power that religious organisations have over their laity.
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    09 Sep '14 07:16
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I find this a refreshing change from the usual fountain of hate and death typically assosiated with "fatwas". However it is a disturbing reminder of the power that religious organisations have over their laity.
    As far as I am aware the "fountain" of fatwa concern small 'technical' matters of faith and scriptural interpretation, such as the timing of fasting and what to do when one cannot pray at the designated time, along with matters pertaining to a divorce etc. As wiki says: 'When someone asks a Muslim scholar about performing a specific action, the reply will be a "fatwa"'. What "fountain of hate and death" do you have in mind or are you referring to a relatively tiny number of highly politicized "death sentences" that were designed to make headlines?
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    09 Sep '14 07:17
    Originally posted by divegeester
    However it is a disturbing reminder of the power that religious organisations have over their laity.
    What power does the "fatwa" in the OP have over Muslims in Indonesia and how is it disturbing?
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    09 Sep '14 09:10
    Originally posted by FMF
    As far as I am aware the "fountain" of fatwa concern small 'technical' matters of faith and scriptural interpretation, such as the timing of fasting and what to do when one cannot pray at the designated time, along with matters pertaining to a divorce etc. As wiki says: 'When someone asks a Muslim scholar about performing a specific action, the reply will be a " ...[text shortened]... tively tiny number of highly politicized "death sentences" that were designed to make headlines?
    Yes I'm referring to the publicized ones we hear about involving crazed hate mongers wanting to kill a person or group for some reason better understood by themselves. This is the first time I've heard about a "fatwa" to protect animals - positive though as it is.
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    09 Sep '14 09:193 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Yes I'm referring to the publicized ones we hear about involving crazed hate mongers wanting to kill a person or group for some reason better understood by themselves. This is the first time I've heard about a "fatwa" to protect animals - positive though as it is.
    There was widespread support for animal welfare in Nazi Germany, and the Nazis took a variety of measures to ensure animals were protected. Many Nazi leaders, including Adolf Hitler and Hermann Göring, were supporters of animal rights and conservation. Several Nazis were environmentalists, and species protection and animal welfare were significant issues in the Nazi regime. Heinrich Himmler made an effort to ban the hunting of animals. Göring was a professed animal lover and conservationist — though from 1934 he was also Reichsjägermeister ("Reich Chief Huntmaster) The current animal welfare laws in Germany are modified versions of the laws introduced by the Nazis.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_welfare_in_Nazi_Germany

    Its a great pity that the fatwa does not go as far as prohibiting the ritual slaughter of animals.
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    09 Sep '14 09:28
    Originally posted by FMF
    What power does the "fatwa" in the OP have over Muslims in Indonesia and how is it disturbing?
    I'm not sure, presumably you feel it is significant which is why you posted it. I feel that any religious body that has significant behavioral influence over it's laity's thinking and consequent behaviors is potentially a bad thing. Generally this influence is not used positively.
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    09 Sep '14 09:29
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    There was widespread support for animal welfare in Nazi Germany, and the Nazis took a variety of measures to ensure animals were protected. Many Nazi leaders, including Adolf Hitler and Hermann Göring, were supporters of animal rights and conservation. Several Nazis were environmentalists, and species protection and animal welfare were significant is ...[text shortened]... s a great pity that the fatwa does not go as far as prohibiting the ritual slaughter of animals.
    Interesting, i wasn't aware of that, thanks. Are you comparing the Nazis to the Muslim leadership in Indonesia?
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    09 Sep '14 12:381 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Interesting, i wasn't aware of that, thanks. Are you comparing the Nazis to the Muslim leadership in Indonesia?
    No its simply an illustration of how its possible to have a moral perspective in one area but for it to be almost trivialised by another. Islam in practice is full of this type of contridiction. For example you can engage in Jihad but you cannot drink alcohol.
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    09 Sep '14 12:55
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Islam in practice is full of this type of contridiction. For example you can engage in Jihad but you cannot drink alcohol.
    "Jihad", for almost all Muslims I've ever met (and got to know), means 'struggling to live a Godly of pious life', or words to that effect, and it is an internal struggle or striving of the spirit, as opposed to waging war against religious oppression or against people of other faiths. So, there are contradictions within Islam over things like the meaning of the word "Jihad", in addition to contradictions between beliefs and behaviours regarding other activities.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    09 Sep '14 12:58
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    No its simply an illustration of how its possible to have a moral perspective in one area but for it to be almost trivialised by another. Islam in practice is full of this type of contridiction. For example you can engage in Jihad but you cannot drink alcohol.
    Could you imagine your organisation offering Bible-based guidance to its members to take an active role in protecting threatened species in the animal kingdom?
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