Originally posted by black beetleThat's a hell of a cult you're involved in.
edit: "Τhe voice of the people is not the voice of God."
The voice of the so called "god" is in my opinion the voice of the people who compiled the so called "holy scriptures". For you, a theist, your scripture is holy -but for me, an atheist, it is absurd and not holy at all. I respect your opinion, however I am determined to live in a country ...[text shortened]... e ruling Christian ideology setting into motion the concept of the secular law.
😵
Good luck with that.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHIs that how you do your research? Yabba dabba doo, Freaky.
Yes, I refuse to support the obvious, because we both know this isn't the issue. If you need a history lesson and you find yourself too-too tired to open a history book, then just Google the phrase "influence of Christianity on history" and start reading the 47M entries that follow.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHIt is no cult. I have no cult. I belong not to a sect.
That's a hell of a cult you're involved in.
Good luck with that.
It is merely my opinion, and I brought it up based on my intelligence and on the evaluation of the mind alone. Prove me wrong and I will bow to you, deeply thankful that you offered me the chance to learn a thing or two
😵
Originally posted by FreakyKBHBut who refused that the influence of Christianity on history is not a fact? The human history is influenced by every religion, the Christian one included -but this is irrelevant to our conversation.
Well, it's probably for the best that you are done wasting your time, because it really is a waste of time to argue something so incredibly obvious.
You've been desperately trying to parse out such things concepts as "intellectual freedom" and the impact Christainity has had on our intellectual pursuits, when only an idiot or incredibly obstinate person ...[text shortened]... ed that you failed to support the claim that Christianity is intellectually impoverished.
I remind you that your basic claim is the following:
“Wasn't it Christianity unfettered which began all of Western civilization? Wasn't it awe and adoration for God and His creation which inspired science? Wasn't it Christianity as the fountainhead before every seminal accomplishment man has achieved?”
And I repeat: the Human achieved nothing by means of the concept of the religion and by means of the pseudoscience known as Theology. And I showed you that everything we achieve is simply a product of our philosophy and our science, and not a product of the miscellaneous religious beliefs, the Christian one included.
And I ‘m still waiting for you to bring up facts and evidence in order to back up your claim
😵
1 edit
There are two interesting moments in this video for me.
One is hilarious. That is a little animation showing the universe filled with monkeys typing away on typwriters supposedly to come up with the play Hamlet. Regardless of what you believe, the scene is just too funny.
The second matter was the claim that all the information that is responsible for the entire biological sphere on earth could fit inside a teaspoon.
Enjoy - Or moan.
&feature=related
Originally posted by black beetleDone and done. Do your own research.
But who refused that the influence of Christianity on history is not a fact? The human history is influenced by every religion, the Christian one included -but this is irrelevant to our conversation.
I remind you that your basic claim is the following:
“Wasn't it Christianity unfettered which began all of Western civilization? Wasn't it awe and ador ...[text shortened]... I ‘m still waiting for you to bring up facts and evidence in order to back up your claim
😵
Originally posted by jaywillConducting a research in order to validate or to falsify a theory is fine, however Freaky cannot bring up facts and evidence in order to back up his claim.
LOL.
This is great. Eventually maybe all the Internet Discussion Forums will reduce down to posters telling each other to just do the research.
-- “Wasn't it Christianity unfettered which began all of Western civilization? Wasn't it awe and adoration for God and His creation which inspired science? Wasn't it Christianity as the fountainhead before every seminal accomplishment man has achieved?”, asked Freaky at his initial post.
My answer over here to him is "No, no and no". I showed Freaky in detail that everything we achieve is simply a product of our philosophy and our science, and not a product of the miscellaneous religious beliefs, the Christian beliefs included.
Furthermore, unable to bring up facts and evidence regarding his initial claim, Freaky shifted his position and asked amongst else whether or not Christianity influenced the history -but this is irrelevant to his initial post. Yes, Christianity influenced history big time, but there are many other religions too that they influenced history big time too -and surely it was not the Christian religion who began all of Western civilisation as he claims.
Therefore, Freaky has an unjustified opinion -but the worst is that he pretends that his opinion is a product of "research".
However Freaky's opinion is not at all a product of a decent research. For the time being I am sure that Freaky offers his opinion either because he heard so since a long time; or because it is based merely on a specific tradition; or because he believed so without any investigation; or because it is based on rumors which he takes for granded; or because it is in accordance to his so called holy scripture; or because it is based merely on suppositions; or because it is connected with some religious interference or with some shallow considerations; or because it is related to his preconceived beliefs; or because it seems acceptable or reasonable or “holy” according to his personal beliefs.
If Freaky was in the position to know for himself as he should, he could at least show me where exactly have I to look in order to monitor and to evaluate the scientific facts and evidence that they back up his opinion
😵
Originally posted by FreakyKBHWhoopy-doo, Google has a lotsa hits! Quantity trumps quality!
Actually, not at all.
As stated in my response, if he was going to persist in such laziness as to refuse to open a book, he could Google and find a plethora of support for my position.
Self-evident BS, Freaky. Shame on you.
And: You lose.
2 edits
Originally posted by black beetle==================================
Conducting a research in order to validate or to falsify a theory is fine, however Freaky cannot bring up facts and evidence in order to back up his claim.
-- “Wasn't it Christianity unfettered which began all of Western civilization? Wasn't it awe and adoration for God and His creation which inspired science? Wasn't it Christianity as the fountainh and to evaluate the scientific facts and evidence that they back up his opinion
😵
My answer over here to him is "No, no and no". I showed Freaky in detail that everything we achieve is simply a product of our philosophy and our science, and not a product of the miscellaneous religious beliefs, the Christian beliefs included.
=====================================
Well, let me give an example where I would not agree.
I saw a documentary about a Christian missionary who went to India. He lost his wife in the process and under went some personal tragedy for his consecration to the service. I think the name of the British missionary was John Carey.
One of the things this man did was translate the local Indian's sanskrit sacred Scriptures for them. The reason he did this was so that they could read for themselves that their scriptures did not call for the people to burn alive the widow of deceased husbands.
They had a tradition of burning alive the wives of recently deceased men on the funeral mound. This Christian missionary's labor of love was to prove to them that their OWN religion did not dictate this practice in thier holy books.
I would regard that as a moral advancement forwarded by the positive use of technical knowledge spurred on by spiritual belief.
In this case at was not an agnostic or atheist humanist linquist laboring. It was a Christian theist's labor to touch the people's conscience to come forth from a terrible practice of burning women alive.
Originally posted by jaywillI have nothing against one's religious beliefs. In a democracy everybody must be free to enjoy his religion and his views to the hilt once he respects the secular law of his soil. You and I -we are different because we have a different cosmotheory, but we are the same under the sun, and if we respect deeply each other and if we try hard and if we are frank we could come over time to a consensus. It seems to me that this is civilization too, padre, and that we can both contribute for a better life.
[b]==================================
My answer over here to him is "No, no and no". I showed Freaky in detail that everything we achieve is simply a product of our philosophy and our science, and not a product of the miscellaneous religious beliefs, the Christian beliefs included.
=====================================
Well, let me give an e ...[text shortened]... uch the people's conscience to come forth from a terrible practice of burning women alive.[/b]
Now regarding your post, it seems to me that John Carey merely set into motion his intelligence, according to which he assumed that the murder of the widow by burning her alive is absolutely false and non-justified under all circumstances, regardless one's religion, regardless one's theist or atheist or cultural or philosophic beliefs.
I am an atheist, but I would respond to this issue just like padre Carey. In my opinion this does not mean that my atheist attitude forced me to act so, and for sure it means not (to me, that is) that Carey's religion forced him to act the way he acted; the agent that it would force me to act so is the evaluation of the mind alone. I would definately disobey to the miscellaneous moral, social, cultural, philosophic and religious standards of the people that they believe that burning the widows is acceptable because it is written in their so called "holy scripture" or wherever. And if the sole way to save her was possible solely by means of using violence, I would not hesitate to kill.
Therefore, since I would definately respect every single one religious belief in case it is not false according to my evaluation, and since I would definately disobey to every single one atheist, social, cultural, philosophic and religious belief or secular law if it is false according to my evaluation, I assume that the agent of every thought and action of mine is my intelligence alone regardless at who's name I conduct every evaluation of mine
😵
Originally posted by black beetleYou've got to be kidding.
Conducting a research in order to validate or to falsify a theory is fine, however Freaky cannot bring up facts and evidence in order to back up his claim.
-- “Wasn't it Christianity unfettered which began all of Western civilization? Wasn't it awe and adoration for God and His creation which inspired science? Wasn't it Christianity as the fountainh ...[text shortened]... and to evaluate the scientific facts and evidence that they back up his opinion
😵
My answer over here to him is "No, no and no". I showed Freaky in detail that everything we achieve is simply a product of our philosophy and our science, and not a product of the miscellaneous religious beliefs, the Christian beliefs included.
For one, it is clear that you have no idea about the origins of what we now call science. While man has always observed, it wasn't until the Renaissance that the practice became more solidified and objectified. During those times, philosophy was considered the handmaiden of theology. There is a reason for that, which seems to be lost on you, for whatever reason. However, on thing is clear in this regard: theology was considered the highest knowledge and all other fields of intellectual pursuit flowed from, flowed after.
You are attributing conclusions to me which have not been made, nor intended. Informed by our spiritual freedom in Christ, God-fearing believers have always held a relaxed mental attitude toward all aspects of life, including the intellectual pursuit of knowledge. When such men are in the majority (or in the rule), intellectual freedom has followed.
Who is widely considered the father of modern science, if not the deeply devout Galilei?
In fact, you can't venture far into even a casual history of science's origins in every facet without running into an inordinate amount of Christians--- men and women whose faith both informed them and inspired them to pursue the inner workings of God's creation. This isn't merely a baseless claim; it is a verfiable fact.
or because it is based merely on suppositions; or because it is connected with some religious interference or with some shallow considerations; or because it is related to his preconceived beliefs; or because it seems acceptable or reasonable or “holy” according to his personal beliefs.
You use words in a manner inconsistent with their normal use and defintion. Presumably you do so to lend credibility to your statements, but it results in the opposite effect. Everything I have offered herein is verifiable. Everything you have offered is, as used previously by you, metaphysical.
1 edit
Originally posted by Bosse de NageGoogle has lotsa hits indicating lotsa talk on the subject matter. If, indeed, Christianity had as little impact on things as a few obstinate folks here insist, would there be so much discussion about the subject matter? Kinda doesn't make any sense, does it?
Whoopy-doo, Google has a lotsa hits! Quantity trumps quality!
Self-evident BS, Freaky. Shame on you.
And: You lose.
No one said anything about the quality of the information available on Google, one way or another. That being said, a printed book doesn't necessarily equate with quality information, either. Nonetheless, Google was offered for the lazy person who refused to open a plethora of books on the subject. As stated, a basic history book will evidence my claims.
Ironically, not one of the three people in opposition to my claim has offered even one source which could ably demonstrate their position of Christianity's lack of influence on the areas mentioned. Just a coincidence, I am certain...