@pb1022 saidYou were responding to a point I made, but you're not interested in discussing it with me? I see. Do you think other posters will have a better understanding of my point of view?
I said I don’t care if you respond to my points. You’re not the only one in this forum.
And it seems kind of silly for someone who’s anonymous to be trying to impress someone.
Yes, I also thought that seemed kind of silly.
Why would you assume that I have not already done so?
Have you done so already then ?
I mean said something like
" Well, even though there remain questions in me about how exactly the text of this Gospel has been transmitted, I nevertheless feel I should and will receive Christ as my Lord and Savior."
If you follow this with another question, I will assume you prefer to keep those matters secret.
I found that there is something called "the peace of God which surpasses every man's understanding" which comes from receiving Jesus as Lord and more so confessing it publicly.
"And the peace of God, which surpasses every man's understanding, will guard your hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus." (Phil 4:7)
@sonship saidI still consider myself atheist at the moment, but I'm not committed to disbelief. Scripture though, I find largely unconvincing, and I find myself rather baffled by reverence thereto. From my reading, it doesn't really seem like something Jesus would advocate.
@avalanchethecatWhy would you assume that I have not already done so?
Have you done so already then ?
I mean said something like
" Well, even though there remain questions in me about how exactly the text of this Gospel has been transmitted, I nevertheless feel I should and will receive Christ as my Lord and Savior."
If y ...[text shortened]... ]man's[/i] understanding, will guard your hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus." (Phil 4:7) [/b]
I still consider myself atheist at the moment, but I'm not committed to disbelief. Scripture though, I find largely unconvincing, and I find myself rather baffled by reverence thereto. From my reading, it doesn't really seem like something Jesus would advocate.
Thankyou for clear reply there.
My God is the man Jesus Christ. And if ever you think I might be able to give you some experience on how I found I worked my way through some of those hesitations or doubts, I'd be glad to share with you how I got through.
And I still have questions. It sounds like you are impressed with what kind of Person Jesus is as described in the Gospels. Yet something makes you question -
"But, WHY would Jesus advocate that? That doesn't sound like the Jesus I hear about concerning other things."
I have found that God accepts an honest prayer. And a number of times I found a place where I could speak my heart out to God complaining or questioning Him with great candor and transparent frankness. And amazingly I had a deep sense that He was listening with great understanding.
But one has to believe that God IS before one can come forward to God. It may not seem fair. But that's the way it is.
" But without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to Him, for he who comes forward to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him." (Heb. 11:6)
Often people don't believe me when I say, I don't have within myself any more faith than anyone else. I really don't But know where to go to GET some. That is hearing the word of God. Faith comes by hearing the word of Christ.
You see, you say you take a atheist position. But you do at least recognize SOMETHING about Jesus which causes you to doubt OTHER things (rightly or wrongly) that just doesn't sound like it fits Jesus.
That is a little bit of faith. Take that to God and tell Him that is ALL you have and don't have any more. See what happens if you be honest.
@sonship saidI don't think anybody can read the words attributed to Jesus and not be impressed and moved. They have a lot more weight than stories of miracles, to me at least.
@avalanchethecat
I still consider myself atheist at the moment, but I'm not committed to disbelief. Scripture though, I find largely unconvincing, and I find myself rather baffled by reverence thereto. From my reading, it doesn't really seem like something Jesus would advocate.
Thankyou for clear reply there.
My God is the man Jesus Christ. ...[text shortened]... to God and tell Him that is ALL you have and don't have any more. See what happens if you be honest.
@avalanchethecat
In fact when they came to Jesus to make Him a king because of the signs He did, He refused and withdrew. The signs He did are not in a vacuum. They accompany the whole story of how He thought and lived.
Then Jesus, knowing that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him King, withdrew again to the mountain, Himself alone." (John 6:15)
They saw the miracle of the loaves and fishes expanded to feed a large multitude. They tried to force Him to be their King. But He withdrew knowing He wanted something deeper in them in their reaction to Him.
Here He tells the people that they only come to Him because their physical need was miraculously met. But they did not grasp the significance of the sign done to point to something more profound about Himself.
"Jesus answered them and said, Truly, truly, I say to you, You seek Me not because you have seen signs, but because you ate of the bread and were filled. Work not for the food which perishes, but for the food which abides unto eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you; for Him has the Father, even God, sealed." (John 6:26)
To Jesus they were not simply miraculous acts. They were SIGNS conveying something more profound about who He was.
Here the Lord Jesus kind of groaned that some only believed because of His ability to supernaturally expel demons.
"And He answered them and said, O unbelieving generation! How long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him to Me." (Mark 9:19)
Jesus did heal the suffering child but He seemed displeased that this act was the only reason some people would believe in Him.
This is why I say I derived faith from hearing the word of God, and the WHOLE word of God, reading it completely for myself.
"Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed into His name when they saw the signs which He did. But Jesus did not entrust Himself to them, for He knew all men. And because He did not need anyone to testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man." (John 2:24,25)
@avalanchethecat saidJesus Christ performed miracles to back up what He was saying, to show He had the authority He said He had. The miracles had a purpose; they weren’t for show.
I don't think anybody can read the words attributed to Jesus and not be impressed and moved. They have a lot more weight than stories of miracles, to me at least.
“Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.”
(Matthew 11:2-5)
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I'm starting to get the impression that Theism consists of a cloud of quoted human verbiage. Am I right?
And then there are those Athiests who believe that they themselves exist, but that no Entity greater than them could possibly exist.
Okay.
Life on Earth in the USA in the 21st Century is a lot like hoping SNL won't descend into potty humor when they run out of good skit ideas.
@kevin-eleven saidIn the interest of balance, I'm being sceptical about lesser entities today as well.
I'm starting to get the impression that Theism consists of a cloud of quoted human verbiage. Am I right?
And then there are those Athiests who believe that they themselves exist, but that no Entity greater than them could possibly exist.
Okay.
Life on Earth in the USA in the 21st Century is a lot like hoping SNL won't descend into potty humor when they run out of good skit ideas.
I hope you won't be mortally offended to hear that I'm not really interested in discussing scripture or being preached to. I'm sure your views on these passages are important to you, but they're of little or no interest to me, I'm afraid.
I am not thin skinned about that.
One of the things going on in the Spirituality Forum is facing up to what is written in the Bible.
I said "one of the things".
Some people come I guess to protest that naturalism is all the "spirituality" they need.
@sonship saidYou're not sure that I can read and consider what is written there without your advice?
@avalanchethecat
I hope you won't be mortally offended to hear that I'm not really interested in discussing scripture or being preached to. I'm sure your views on these passages are important to you, but they're of little or no interest to me, I'm afraid.
Its your loss if you have no interest in the Bible.
But I think I misunderstood your co ...[text shortened]... te]
I am not sure how one reasons that way without having to consider what is written there.
Folks, I don't know how Atheism (with some people) will survive into the coming years as we see science uncover more and more the exquisite fine calibration of the universe apparently with a view to human life.
Some will opt to imagining there are an infinite number of universes.
And we just happened to be in the finely tuned one.
Hey, somebody had to land in that one. Right?
The devotion to this rational by some is weird.