Originally posted by Suzianne
If, instead of "religion", you had used the word "theology", you'd have the answer in front of you.

To be a religion by definition, it must be "a belief in a divine or superhuman power or powers to be obeyed and worshiped as the creator(s) and ruler(s) of the universe".

So just believing that you left your car keys in your car overnight cannot be a re ...[text shortened]... believe in something, then you must at least have some clue as to what that something is.

Godda admit, so the guy goes I don't know what you are talking about but I don't believe it🙂

Originally posted by Suzianne
If, instead of "religion", you had used the word "theology", you'd have the answer in front of you.

To be a religion by definition, it must be "a belief in a divine or superhuman power or powers to be obeyed and worshiped as the creator(s) and ruler(s) of the universe".

So just believing that you left your car keys in your car overnight cannot be a re ...[text shortened]... believe in something, then you must at least have some clue as to what that something is.

I think that constrains the term somewhat: Buddhism is widely accepted as a religion but it has no 'divine or superhuman power or powers to be obeyed and worshiped'.

I think it is just a belief in a supernatural system. Evolution in this case does not count as it is not supernatural. Superstitions also do not quite qualify unless they are bound together in some all encompassing system

--- Penguin

btw, I am likely to be much less active on these forums in the future since I have reduced access at work (probably a good thing!) and of course a young family at home. Apologies if I fail to respond to people.

Originally posted by C Hess
Actually, this thread isn't about evolution so much as it is about what constitutes a religion.
What are the requirements for calling some belief religious? If any belief that can't
immediately be verified, but takes some work on the part of the "believer" to be understood
and verified is a religion, doesn't that belittle what's traditionally considered ...[text shortened]... he same as having a religious belief? Or is there something more to
having a religious belief?

Religion has come to mean many things over time, but all of the meanings have more or less held to certain themes.

Since the 1200's, it has mostly held the meaning "state of life bound by monastic vows," also "conduct indicating a belief in a divine power."

From the Old French religion "piety, devotion; religious community," and directly from Latin religionem (nominative religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods; conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation; fear of the gods; divine service, religious observance; a religion, a faith, a mode of worship, cult; sanctity, holiness," in Late Latin "monastic life" (5c.).

Also, a sense of "recognition of and allegiance in manner of life (perceived as justly due) to a higher, unseen power or powers" is from 1530s.

I think some of the sticking points for theists who consider atheism or evolution-sans-God a religion are related to those earmarks of religion in proper, namely, a mindset which devotedly practices specific tenets in a service-like workmanship. The atheist balks at such bleeding of meaning, on the main basis thrust of the issue of divine, to which the theist then counters with the complaint how the atheist has a substitution to the creator: creation.

Therein lies the rub.
The religious pay their reverence to the divine on the basis of the divine's properties, chief among them, creation.
The non-religious seek to avoid the payment by removing at least that one property, claiming the natural created itself, or in some other fashion, ascribe to creation another other aspect of divinity, eternal life.

Originally posted by Penguin
I think that constrains the term somewhat: Buddhism is widely accepted as a religion but it has no 'divine or superhuman power or powers to be obeyed and worshiped'.

I think it is just a belief in a supernatural system. Evolution in this case does not count as it is not supernatural. Superstitions also do not quite qualify unless they are bound tog ...[text shortened]... y a good thing!) and of course a young family at home. Apologies if I fail to respond to people.

A "supernatural system". Not bad. I'd be hard-pressed to refute that.

Originally posted by C Hess
But atheism and evolution are not two sides of the same coin, are they?

They seem to be related somehow, but maybe not by coinage.

Originally posted by RJHinds
They seem to be related somehow, but maybe not by coinage.

If they're related, how come some of the brightest and best evolutionists are also outspoken christians?

Originally posted by C Hess
Actually, this thread isn't about evolution so much as it is about what constitutes a religion.
What are the requirements for calling some belief religious? If any belief that can't
immediately be verified, but takes some work on the part of the "believer" to be understood
and verified is a religion, doesn't that belittle what's traditionally considered ...[text shortened]... he same as having a religious belief? Or is there something more to
having a religious belief?

Just so I know, according to you...or any source you'd like to use to
define your view. What makes a religion, a religion? Is a god required,
or can you have a religion without one?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Just so I know, according to you...or any source you'd like to use to
define your view. What makes a religion, a religion? Is a god required,
or can you have a religion without one?
Kelly

A religion, as I understand it, is an attempt to prepare for a continued existence once our
physical bodies die. It must therefore involve a belief in the supernatural in some form or
other, and it must also include a belief that truths about this supernatural world has been
revealed to us. These "truths", if you accept them, lead to doctrines that believers of that
given religion must follow in order to secure a good or better continued existence after
physical death. A religion, I would therefore argue, is all about what happens after we die.

Obviously, evolution (or atheism) doesn't fit that definition of religion, so I was curious
what people who would label these as religions had to say about it.

Originally posted by C Hess
If they're related, how come some of the brightest and best evolutionists are also outspoken christians?

They are obviously trying to be popular. Any Christian that believes in evolution doesn't really understand the theory of evolution. He is like a cult member that has been tricked into accepting the false teachings of a cult group because of the propaganda and the thought that smart people believe it.

Originally posted by C Hess
A religion, as I understand it, is an attempt to prepare for a continued existence once our
physical bodies die. It must therefore involve a belief in the supernatural in some form or
other, and it must also include a belief that truths about this supernatural world has been
revealed to us. These "truths", if you accept them, lead to doctrines that beli ...[text shortened]... religion, so I was curious
what people who would label these as religions had to say about it.

So it involves only the supernatual, you couldn't be religious over say
baseball, or some sports team?
Kelly

Originally posted by C Hess
A religion, as I understand it, is an attempt to prepare for a continued existence once our
physical bodies die. It must therefore involve a belief in the supernatural in some form or
other, and it must also include a belief that truths about this supernatural world has been
revealed to us. These "truths", if you accept them, lead to doctrines that beli ...[text shortened]... religion, so I was curious
what people who would label these as religions had to say about it.

I pulled this off the web, what say you of 3?

Definition of religion (n)
Bing Dictionary
re·li·gion[ ri líjjən ]1.beliefs and worship: people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life
2.system: an institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine
3.personal beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by

Originally posted by KellyJay
I pulled this off the web, what say you of 3?

Definition of religion (n)
Bing Dictionary
re·li·gion[ ri líjjən ]1.beliefs and worship: people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life
2.system: an institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and ...[text shortened]... beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by

It may be used that way as figure of speech (such as: he's religious about his cooking,
where everything has to be done in a certain way, it's like a ritual to him), but even by that
definition, neither evolution nor atheism fits the description. Neither one of them requires
its adherents to live by some kind of code or value system. Evolution is a scientific theory
to help us understand how the natural, biological world works, and atheism is a label to
describe the lack of belief in the supernatural.

Originally posted by RJHinds
They are obviously trying to be popular. Any Christian that believes in evolution doesn't really understand the theory of evolution. He is like a cult member that has been tricked into accepting the false teachings of a cult group because of the propaganda and the thought that smart people believe it.

Or, just a wild thought here, it's you who don't understand evolution.

Originally posted by C Hess
It may be used that way as figure of speech (such as: he's religious about his cooking,
where everything has to be done in a certain way, it's like a ritual to him), but even by that
definition, neither evolution nor atheism fits the description. Neither one of them requires
its adherents to live by some kind of code or value system. Evolution is a scie ...[text shortened]... ogical world works, and atheism is a label to
describe the lack of belief in the supernatural.

I'd say strongly held beliefs without a doubt fits evolution as a religion.
For some it is not a theory, they claim it is factual, if that isn't strong,
what is? Atheism is the same way, they have strongly held beliefs about
the universe how it began, how life started, how it evolved over time.
They have strongly held views about right and wrong, they justify some
condemn others, it is a belief system, system in that they take the
universe as they see it and mold their stance or world views to fit it.

Supernatural not required.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'd say strongly held beliefs without a doubt fits evolution as a religion.
For some it is not a theory, they claim it is factual, if that isn't strong,
what is? Atheism is the same way, they have strongly held beliefs about
the universe how it began, how life started, how it evolved over time.
They have strongly held views about right and wrong, they j ...[text shortened]... they see it and mold their stance or world views to fit it.

Supernatural not required.
Kelly

Atheists may hold strong beliefs about this or that, but atheism is only about not believing
in the supernatural. It's like saying that because a lot of christians believe in sharing, that
therefore being christian is synonymous with socialism. I can think of quite a few
christians that would have a problem with that.

The theory of evolution describes how life can evolve, and it happens to fit observations. It
doesn't state anything about how you should or should not live your life, so even though an
evolutionist may be an opiniated atheist, an evolutionist can also be a christian, muslim or
whatever other unrelated label you can think of.