1. Joined
    29 Jan '07
    Moves
    3612
    15 Jun '08 09:29
    surely if we must believe in a god then that god should be time... the universe obeys it, nothing is outside of it, we are all controlled by it...

    did god create time? if so why didnt he simply go back to a point before eve ate the apple and change it... if he cannot do this, which it looks like he cant because it was never done, then god cannot control everything

    also, when the universe was created, god said it was done in a time framework (days and nights), this implies we had time before god created anything...

    how many passages in the bible refer to a time in the future, even the second coming speaks at a certain time... implying that god cannot change it...

    if god didnt create time, there is something that even god must obey... therefore, he is not all powerful for there is something greater than he
  2. Joined
    11 Nov '05
    Moves
    43938
    15 Jun '08 12:281 edit
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    also, when the universe was created, god said it was done in a time framework (days and nights), this implies we had time before god created anything...
    There were no days and nights at the dawn of universe. To have days and nights, you must have a sun and a revolving planet. They didn't came into existance in a billion of years after the BigBang.
  3. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    15 Jun '08 15:37
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    There were no days and nights at the dawn of universe. To have days and nights, you must have a sun and a revolving planet. They didn't came into existance in a billion of years after the BigBang.
    Big What? Did you say Big Bang? What Bang?


    How could there be a "Bang" if there were no air to hear any noise?

    Isn't it kind of unscientific language for you to speak of a "Big Bang?"
  4. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    15 Jun '08 15:512 edits
    ========================================

    surely if we must believe in a god then that god should be time... the universe obeys it, nothing is outside of it, we are all controlled by it...

    ==========================================


    Well, then there is this problem with the Bible. The fact that God forefold the prophets of certain events ages before they occured leave some of us no choice.

    We have to conclude then that if God could tell Micah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Abraham, Moses, Jacob, etc. of things in the future, we have to conclude that God in must transcend time.

    Prophecy persuades many of us that God transcends time and can be uneffected by it.


    =============================================

    did god create time? if so why didnt he simply go back to a point before eve ate the apple and change it...

    ======================================


    While I don't think I have an answer for that, I do submit that at LEAST we see that TIME is moving to a climax in which all that went wrong in the fall of man is fixed.

    At least we see that history is moving in that direction in which God has a universe free from death, filled with rightouesness, free from desease and crying and tears and sin and sins and lying and every negative thing.

    So why I admit that you have a good question why He didn't just turn time back and change everything, we do at least see that moving forward there is a extensive and all-incompassing eternal salvation through Jesus Christ.

    Why don't we therefore run with that?

    ===============================================

    if he cannot do this, which it looks like he cant because it was never done, then god cannot control everything

    =========================================



    Whether He CANNOT or WOULD NOT may be a stimulating philosophical question.

    However what we DO see is the "All things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose."

    We see in the climax of the Bible a new heaven and a new earth in which righteousness dwells forever and God's enemies are damned.

    So, I have decided to run with that. Maybe in the eternal age I can ask God your question. But I am thrilled that He is able to turn ALL things out to good if I would love Him and respond to the calling to His eternal purpose in Christ Jesus.

    ==================================
    also, when the universe was created, god said it was done in a time framework (days and nights), this implies we had time before god created anything...
    =================================


    That is probably the way I read it also. I mean not time before ANYTHING. But time before the world as we know it, there was.

    He created the universe "in the beginning" and some TIME latter there was a world of waste and void which in seven days HE restored and also created some new life forms.

    Many Bible readers understand an unspecified gap or interval of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

    In other words, we have no idea exactly how old the creation is. We understand that the world prepared for MAN commenced some thousands of years ago.


    I believe that the first human being was Adam.
  5. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    15 Jun '08 16:135 edits
    Wrong discussion. Deleted.
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
    Joined
    24 May '04
    Moves
    148459
    15 Jun '08 20:51
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    surely if we must believe in a god then that god should be time... the universe obeys it, nothing is outside of it, we are all controlled by it...

    did god create time? if so why didnt he simply go back to a point before eve ate the apple and change it... if he cannot do this, which it looks like he cant because it was never done, then god cannot contr ...[text shortened]... t even god must obey... therefore, he is not all powerful for there is something greater than he
    I guess God lets things play out the way those playing want them,
    unlike us that from time to time would reset a game to where we
    would/could/will win.
    Kelly
  7. Joined
    27 Sep '06
    Moves
    9651
    15 Jun '08 21:07
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    surely if we must believe in a god then that god should be time... the universe obeys it, nothing is outside of it, we are all controlled by it...

    did god create time? if so why didnt he simply go back to a point before eve ate the apple and change it... if he cannot do this, which it looks like he cant because it was never done, then god cannot contr ...[text shortened]... t even god must obey... therefore, he is not all powerful for there is something greater than he
    We exist in time and space. But there is a place outside of the material universe were time doesn't exist.

    That's all we know!
  8. Joined
    01 Jun '06
    Moves
    274
    15 Jun '08 22:33
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Big What? Did you say Big Bang? What Bang?


    How could there be a "Bang" if there were no air to hear any noise?

    Isn't it kind of unscientific language for you to speak of a "Big Bang?"
    Yes, its a very unscientific name, but someone coined the phrase and it's catchy so it caught on, regretably. It's just an analogy really and should not be taken literally. Much like many of the bible/koran/other religious texts.

    --- Penguin.
  9. round and round
    Joined
    15 Mar '08
    Moves
    4019
    16 Jun '08 01:07
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    surely if we must believe in a god then that god should be time... the universe obeys it, nothing is outside of it, we are all controlled by it...

    did god create time? if so why didnt he simply go back to a point before eve ate the apple and change it... if he cannot do this, which it looks like he cant because it was never done, then god cannot contr ...[text shortened]... t even god must obey... therefore, he is not all powerful for there is something greater than he
    Originally posted by eatmybishop

    I'm going to address your questions as if they were honest. I don't think they are. Your inclination just seems to be to try and criticize anything you can about God, or anything to do with Him. Otherwise you wouldn't jump to the conclusions you so quickly jump to. For instance ...

    did god create time? if so why didnt he simply go back to a point before eve ate the apple and change it... if he cannot do this, which it looks like he cant because it was never done, then god cannot control everything

    Or He simply chose not to and chooses not to. That's also a possibility, isn't it? Being as smart as you are, how did you overlook that possibility? (By the way, it wasn't an apple, either 😕)

    also, when the universe was created, god said it was done in a time framework (days and nights), this implies we had time before god created anything...

    Look again. Here's the account from Genesis:

    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. God called the light Day and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

    So, ... God first, then time. Simple.

    Some advice. Quit trying to poke your finger in God's eye. It just seems, ... juvenile.
  10. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
    Osaka
    Joined
    27 Apr '05
    Moves
    8592
    16 Jun '08 01:13
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Big What? Did you say Big Bang? What Bang?


    How could there be a "Bang" if there were no air to hear any noise?

    Isn't it kind of unscientific language for you to speak of a "Big Bang?"
    Blame the creationist Fred Hoyle if you don't like the name - it was he who coined the phrase.
  11. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    16 Jun '08 03:551 edit
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Blame the creationist Fred Hoyle if you don't like the name - it was he who coined the phrase.
    Fred Hoyle was an atheist who had his confidence in it shaken by the Anthropic Principle and the complexity he saw in life.


    Fred Holye said:

    "A commonsense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super intellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature."

    He was VAGUE about just who the "super intellect" was.

    So he coined the phrase "Big Bang" and all the smarter anti-creationists who are all suppose to know better use the phrase ?

    Interesting.
  12. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
    Osaka
    Joined
    27 Apr '05
    Moves
    8592
    16 Jun '08 04:241 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Fred Hoyle was an atheist who had his confidence in it shaken by the Anthropic Principle and the complexity he saw in life.


    Fred Holye said:

    [b]"A commonsense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super intellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature." ...[text shortened]... ter anti-creationists who are all suppose to know better use the phrase ?

    Interesting.
    [/b]
    He certainly did not have any confidence in either the Big Bang, which later turned out to be true, or evolution, which is also true.

    An interesting individual, for sure, and the phrase "Big Bang" certainly has stuck, but the important point here is that Hoyle notably didn't believe the Big Bang to be the correct explanation of the data.

    However, as Bill Shakespeare once said, "a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet", and in the same vein, the Big Bang by any other name would still be as true.
  13. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    16 Jun '08 13:02
    =====================================

    He certainly did not have any confidence in either the Big Bang, which later turned out to be true, or evolution, which is also true.

    ==========================================


    Evolution is true? Yes, that animals change. Certainly that's true.

    That my brain is the result of accidents ? You go ahead and believe that if you want to. I believe my brain was designed.


    ===========================================

    However, as Bill Shakespeare once said, "a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet", and in the same vein, the Big Bang by any other name would still be as true.

    ===================================


    Interesting. I suppose "Creation" by any other name would also still be true.
  14. Joined
    29 Jan '07
    Moves
    3612
    16 Jun '08 20:36
    Originally posted by dizzyfingers
    Originally posted by eatmybishop

    I'm going to address your questions as if they were honest. I don't think they are. Your inclination just seems to be to try and criticize anything you can about God, or anything to do with Him. Otherwise you wouldn't jump to the conclusions you so quickly jump to. For instance ...

    [i]did god create time? if ...[text shortened]... ome advice. Quit trying to poke your finger in God's eye. It just seems, ... juvenile.
    i feel it's a shame you class anything that criticises god as juvenile...

    if an opinion doesnt match yours, do you simply dismiss it as juvenile..?
  15. At the Revolution
    Joined
    15 Sep '07
    Moves
    5073
    16 Jun '08 20:57
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Big What? Did you say Big Bang? What Bang?


    How could there be a "Bang" if there were no air to hear any noise?

    Isn't it kind of unscientific language for you to speak of a "Big Bang?"
    The "Bang" refers not to the noise, but to the explosion itself. I thought you knew that.
Back to Top