Is life more fulfilling if you have faith?

Originally posted by orfeo
Comments like that just reveal that you make no attempt to understand a point of view different to your own. My faith is not some panacea.

On the contrary, sometimes it makes life more difficult to deal with rather than less. For instance, there are things that WOULD remove the pissed off feeling - at least in the short term - that may be problematic for ...[text shortened]... they would be contrary to my faith.

Such as hitting you with an extremely large blunt object.

Now we wouldn't want you to question your faith now would we...... violence never solved anything, obviously just a short cut to thinking. Your point of view is really quite simplistic to understand but debate is obviously far removed from your intention. I really must go....... so why dont you have the last word and remain fulfilled.

Originally posted by timebombted
Now we wouldn't want you to question your faith now would we...... violence never solved anything, obviously just a short cut to thinking. Your point of view is really quite simplistic to understand but debate is obviously far removed from your intention. I really must go....... so why dont you have the last word and remain fulfilled.

Again you completely miss the point - although I gave you that option by letting my temper out.

Maybe I wouldn't be so angry if you could stop being so goddamn patronising.

Originally posted by timebombted
With regards to your last comment it would seem that you are not even capable of managing / accepting your own life without having "blind faith" to fall back on and support your existence. This kind of attitude is weak minded and something I will never respect. Deal with life yourself and stop expecting faith to help you through everything when things get a little tough. Faith = placebo

You are assuming a lot. I have no doubt there are many people who are too lazy or incapable of thinking for themselves and who use faith to take the responsibility from themselves. But to assume that anyone who has faith is weak-minded and uses faith as a placebo is simply ridiculous. Besides, if it gives people some extra strength in situations they otherwise couldn't handle, I don't see that as a bad thing.

Originally posted by Nordlys
You are assuming a lot. I have no doubt there are many people who are too lazy or incapable of thinking for themselves and who use faith to take the responsibility from themselves. But to assume that anyone who has faith is weak-minded and uses faith as a placebo is simply ridiculous. Besides, if it gives people some extra strength in situations they otherwise couldn't handle, I don't see that as a bad thing.

I actually assume nothing, but have drawn my conclusions from all my past experiences. I have been surrounded by the concept of religion and faith for the majority of my life - so I stick to the previous statement I made concerning weak minds and the placebo effect. This is not a personal attack it is just my perception of faith from experience of those I have met.

Please tell me how you use "faith", this is in a religious sense not with regards to trusting a physical person ie family or friend. I would be interested if you are different from anyone else.

Originally posted by Nordlys
You are assuming a lot. I have no doubt there are many people who are too lazy or incapable of thinking for themselves and who use faith to take the responsibility from themselves. But to assume that anyone who has faith is weak-minded and uses faith as a placebo is simply ridiculous. Besides, if it gives people some extra strength in situations they otherwise couldn't handle, I don't see that as a bad thing.

Wherever the extra strength comes from is obviously not a bad thing if it helps said individual, I agree with this...... but I believe that it takes a much stronger mind to deal with reality with reality and not something that is an intangiable placebo. A strong mind and character I respect, having faith to achieve fulfillment or to gain strength to handle life I do not.

Originally posted by timebombted
I actually assume nothing, but have drawn my conclusions from all my past experiences. I have been surrounded by the concept of religion and faith for the majority of my life - so I stick to the previous statement I made concerning weak minds and the placebo effect. This is not a personal attack it is just my perception of faith from experience of those ...[text shortened]... sical person ie family or friend. I would be interested if you are different from anyone else.

You assume that orfeo is like other religious people you know. Of course my impression of him may be wrong as well, but he never gave me the impression of a weak-minded person who uses his faith as a cushion or placebo.

I don't use "faith", as I don't believe in any god. But it seems to me that many religious people feel just as responsible for their own lives and actions as I do, and maybe they feel more accountable for them; and they don't blindly follow the lead of a book or a spiritual leader, but continue to search and question what they are told and find their own way, much like I do when confronted with ethical questions.

Originally posted by timebombted
Wherever the extra strength comes from is obviously not a bad thing if it helps said individual, I agree with this...... but I believe that it takes a much stronger mind to deal with reality with reality and not something that is an intangiable placebo. A strong mind and character I respect, having faith to achieve fulfillment or to gain strength to handle life I do not.

Well, not everybody has the same strength of mind, and not everybody has the same challenges in life. Some people have done things I would most likely not have the courage to do, and they got the extra strength they needed to do this from their faith. I am for example thinking of some resistance fighters in Nazi Germany. Of course not all resistance fighters were religious, but those who were used their faith in a way I can only admire. And some who were not religious to begin with turned to religion when they needed more strength (e.g. when confronted with death), and I would never condemn them for that.

Originally posted by Nordlys
Well, not everybody has the same strength of mind, and not everybody has the same challenges in life. Some people have done things I would most likely not have the courage to do, and they got the extra strength they needed to do this from their faith. I am for example thinking of some resistance fighters in Nazi Germany. Of course not all resistance fighters ...[text shortened]... needed more strength (e.g. when confronted with death), and I would never condemn them for that.

OK so we have non religious people to start with?
Who you then say turn to faith for help?
And only then do they have the strength to accomplish said task?

Sounds like they had the ability to accomplish the task in the first place yet lacked the strength of mind to action upon that, instead they needed a placebo to get them going ie faith.

How is this not a placebo effect?

Again I dont condemn then for this accomplishment (whatever that may be) but question that faith wasn't really required.