Is lying always a sin?

@Josephw (posting as @SecondSon) is claiming that lying to a liar is not a sin; is this substantiated?

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44).

Thoughts...

@divegeester said
@Josephw (posting as @SecondSon) is claiming that lying to a liar is not a sin; is this substantiated?

I don't believe there is any such thing as "sin"; I am an agnostic atheist.

I'd contend that it would be morally justifiable to use deceit to protect myself or my family or people I am responsible for who seek to cause damage through morally unsound acts.

@fmf said
I'd contend that it would be morally justifiable to use deceit to protect myself or my family or people I am responsible for who seek to cause damage through morally unsound acts.

I have no issue with this from a moral standpoint, or even a Christian one.

However within the Christian mindset if someone is a habitual liar, or deceiver and you as the christian lie to them for any other reason than self or family defense, then would that be a would that be a sin - hypothetically speaking?

In other words is the Christian auto-absolved from lying because of the condition of the person they are lying to?

I say no, absolutely not.

@divegeester said
I have no issue with this from a moral standpoint, or even a Christian one.

However within the Christian mindset if someone is a habitual liar, or deceiver and you as the christian lie to them for any other reason than self or family defense, then would that be a would that be a sin - hypothetically speaking?

In other words is the Christian auto-absolved from lying because of the condition of the person they are lying to?

I say no, absolutely not.

As a Christian, would it have been morally justifiable to hide Jews in Nazi Germany and then lie about having them?

@whodey said
As a Christian, would it have been morally justifiable to hide Jews in Nazi Germany and then lie about having them?

Looks like you sent divegeester's brain into overload.

At least you got him to shut his yammering yap for a couple of hours. Good job whodey.

@secondson said
Looks like you sent divegeester's brain into overload.

At least you got him to shut his yammering yap for a couple of hours. Good job whodey.

Apologies if you have done so already, but could you just affirm that you are not linked to the previous Joseph account.

I personally stopped communicating with Joseph when he asserted atheists were either ignorant or irrational. (Being neither of these things, I'm sure you can appreciate how vexatious I found his remarks).

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I personally stopped communicating with Joseph when he asserted atheists were either ignorant or irrational.

josephw from time to time also asserted that atheism was akin to mental illness.

@whodey said
As a Christian, would it have been morally justifiable to hide Jews in Nazi Germany and then lie about having them?

Yes of course.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Apologies if you have done so already, but could you just affirm that you are not linked to the previous Joseph account.

I personally stopped communicating with Joseph when he asserted atheists were either ignorant or irrational. (Being neither of these things, I'm sure you can appreciate how vexatious I found his remarks).

@Josephw was/is a right wing American blowhard Christian currently posting as the “spiritual muscle” poster @SecondSon.

@SecondSon is a pompous Christian who thinks it is ok to one day tell me he loves me in Jesus and that he’s praying for me and the next day to call me a “pinhead” a “moron” and an “ashole”.

He doesn’t understand the use of metaphors in the bible, thinks lying to liars is acceptable and has no idea what he actually believes about eternal suffering.

As @Josephw he once (famously at the time) called me an enemy of God because I found a Wolfgang59 joke about @Grampy-Bobby’s posting amusing.

@divegeester said
@Josephw was/is a right wing American blowhard Christian currently posting as the “spiritual muscle” poster @SecondSon.

@SecondSon is a pompous Christian who thinks it is ok to one day tell me he loves me in Jesus and that he’s praying for me and the next day to call me a “pinhead” a “moron” and an “ashole”.

He doesn’t understand the use of metaphors in the bibl ...[text shortened]... ) called me an enemy of God because I found a Wolfgang59 joke about @Grampy-Bobby’s posting amusing.

Let's have the man speak for himself.

We know he's "on your list" of people you don't like and so you think that gives you license to "destroy" their forum reputation. We get that. Not all here agree, however.

@whodey said
As a Christian, would it have been morally justifiable to hide Jews in Nazi Germany and then lie about having them?

I believe it was the Bishop and a Priest of Thessaloniki that, when the Nazis came, they were asked for a list of names of all of the Jews...

The Bishop and Priest wrote down that they were the only Jews in all of Thessaloniki, and that there were no other Jews. Meanwhile, in preparation, many Jews were already being hidden and others sent out of the city at the Bishop's commands...

The Bishop and Priest were the only "Jews" to die from that city.

I still remember the story fondly.