Is The Trinity from Pagan Root?

Originally posted by galveston75
Oh my gosh...Are you not following all the threads with all the links we've posted? If not go back and look and I don't have the time to help you find them. Sorry.

I have read all your threads on this subject and in fact contributed on a number of occasions. RjHinds' argument here in fact is the same one I have put forward to you and RC, without any substantial response on either of your parts. The question remains, pagan triads are not the same as the Christian Trinity so how exactly is the Trinity originated from paganism?

Originally posted by galveston75
Your the slave as your church will kick you out for not accepting the trinity, right?

I have no fear of that happening.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I have no fear of that happening.

But it would....Your name would be scratched off their member list and as the judge they put themselves up to be, you'd be comdemned to hell. Am I wrong?

Originally posted by Conrau K
I have read all your threads on this subject and in fact contributed on a number of occasions. RjHinds' argument here in fact is the same one I have put forward to you and RC, without any substantial response on either of your parts. The question remains, pagan triads are not the same as the Christian Trinity so how exactly is the Trinity originated from paganism?

It's been answered so find it.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
"first formulated by Tertullian"

so WHO is this guy?

What makes his opinion right -was he another Messiah or Prophet or something?

Why didnt he strat another religion (was he just lazy) ...; this whole religion thing gets weirder and weirder!

Tertullian was a second century Christian author. Many of his works give crucial insight into the formative thinking of Christian doctrine, such as the Trinity but also on sacramental theology, baptism for example, amongst other things. Later in life he separated from the Roman church, becoming a disciple of the heresy of Millenarianism. The point however is not whether he was right or wrong -- the point here is that his articulation of the Trinity as 'one divine nature in three persons' is quite different from pagan thinking. To add more to this, Tertullian was hugely anti-pagan. He very strictly argued that no Christian could accept any secular honours because of its pagan associations. He famously defended a soldier who would not accept the garland of military triumph. Given his ferociously anti-pagan beliefs, it is difficult to see how in stating a fundamental Christian doctrine, he would have incorporated pagan ideas.

Originally posted by galveston75
It's been answered so find it.

No it hasn't. You have never produced a single example of a genuine trinity in any pagan context. All you have given is cases of triads. I want to see you quote a pagan author stating that a particular triad was 'three persons subsisting in one nature'. You have not done so and likely none of your inane JW tracts will have an answer.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
"first formulated by Tertullian"

so WHO is this guy?

What makes his opinion right -was he another Messiah or Prophet or something?

Why didnt he strat another religion (was he just lazy) ...; this whole religion thing gets weirder and weirder!

Read about hiim on Wikipedia. Here is the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertullian

Originally posted by galveston75
Manny..most of all JW's came out of other religions as I've said to you many times, I know you understand what I'm saying but your being silly now.
In fact most that I personally know were of other religions and most did not agree with their teachings and many know as much if not more then you with what they were taught. We also have thousands and thou ...[text shortened]... the trinity? If you say yes I feel your not being honest with yourself. That is a sad thing.

If you really wanted the truth you would have listened to me. For I have
been pointing you to the truth, but you refuse to get your head out of your
ASS.

Originally posted by galveston75
But it would....Your name would be scratched off their member list and as the judge they put themselves up to be, you'd be comdemned to hell. Am I wrong?

I became a member of the church when I was twelve years old. I haven't
been back to that church since I joined the Army when I was twenty. I
am now 67 and found out a few years ago that I am still on their membership
list. So it looks like they have no interest in deleting me from their
membership.

Originally posted by galveston75
Manny..most of all JW's came out of other religions as I've said to you many times, I know you understand what I'm saying but your being silly now.
In fact most that I personally know were of other religions and most did not agree with their teachings and many know as much if not more then you with what they were taught. We also have thousands and thou ...[text shortened]... the trinity? If you say yes I feel your not being honest with yourself. That is a sad thing.

G-75 this is honest and from the heart. I don't think believing in the trinity is necessary for salvation. Jesus said to come to him and repent (Literally change ones mind and direction towards God)I don't think having a correct theological understanding at least initially is important for a man's salvation. However as one becomes a more mature Christian and the spirit opens the word of God (The Bible)truth about God's nature will be revealed and shown in scripture. I however do believe that God reveals Himself in a triune nature. I don't know why God does this but He does. We would not even be having this argument if it were not at least seen in scripture. I will agree that the word trinity is not used in the bible but this does not change this triune nature of the "ONE God". I really truly believe that this is true though. I believe we can apprehend the triune nature of God but we can't fully understand or comprehend it but just because we can't understand fully the very nature of God does not negate it or what is revealed in scripture. Analogies can be used like Water for example solid , liquid , gas yet still water. However even these analogies break down and human language does too. I humbly accept what is revealed in scripture some things are not explainable with human understanding.

So yes I'm being very honest with myself. I however will and would never be a JW for many reasons not so much just because they don't believe in the trinity but for many reasons.

Manny

Originally posted by menace71
G-75 this is honest and from the heart. I don't think believing in the trinity is necessary for salvation. Jesus said to come to him and repent (Literally change ones mind and direction towards God)I don't think having a correct theological understanding at least initially is important for a man's salvation. However as one becomes a more mature Christian an ...[text shortened]... o much just because they don't believe in the trinity but for many reasons.

Manny

But the Jehvah's Witnesses do not believe they should give Jesus equal
honor and worship as they give to God the Father. That is the big
problem in their not believing in the Trinity. Without that belief, how
can they give full trust in a created being to have the power of God to
save them? Jesus may not be able to save them, since He is not
all-powerful the same as God is.

Originally posted by RJHinds
But the Jehvah's Witnesses do not believe they should give Jesus equal
honor and worship as they give to God the Father. That is the big
problem in their not believing in the Trinity. Without that belief, how
can they give full trust in a created being to have the power of God to
save them? Jesus may not be able to save them, since He is not
all-powerful the same as God is.

No we don't give Jesus equal honor because he is not equal to his Father Jehovah. Did not Jesus himself acknowledge that as has been mentioned and shown by scriptures over and over to you? When you read this scriptures do you really not understand the meaning as it very simply states "He gave no consideration as being equal to God"!
How can you possilbly not read and just accept what this is simply and clearly saying? You can't change that statement and add or take away what it says. You have no authority to do that.
But I guess in order to make it fit somehow into the trinity idea you'd have to twist it somehow, but guys you can't. It simply says what it says.
So unless you've found another newer God inspired book that now says "he is equal to God" and the old Bible is wrong on that, then you win.

Originally posted by galveston75
No we don't give Jesus equal honor because he is not equal to his Father Jehovah. Did not Jesus himself acknowledge that as has been mentioned and shown by scriptures over and over to you? When you read this scriptures do you really not understand the meaning as it very simply states "He gave no consideration as being equal to God"!
How can you possilb ...[text shortened]... ok that now says "he is equal to God" and the old Bible is wrong on that, then you win.

You apparently are quoting from the NWT, which has distorted that passage
to fit the JW's theology. The passage is actually saying Jesus, having the
nature of God and being equal to God, humbled himself by taking on the
human nature; and in return God the Father humbled himself also by highly
exalting Jesus above Himself. It comes from Philippians, chapter 2, which
you should read; but I will quote more so you may understand it in context.

Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let
each of you regard one another as more important than himself; do not
merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests
of others. Have the attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with
God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a
bond-servent and being made in the likenes of men. And being found in
appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the
point of death, even death on the cross. Therefore also God highly exalted
Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at
the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and
on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of the Father. (Philippians 2:3-11 NASB)

For to which of the angels did He ever say, "Thou art My Son, today I have
begotten Thee"? And again, "I will be a Father to Him, and He shall be a
Son to Me?" And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He
says, "And let all the angels of God Worship Him." (Hebrews 1:5-6 NASB)

From the words of Jesus, "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He
has given all judgement to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son,
even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not
honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:22-23 NASB)

Are the Jehovah's Witnesses better than the angels? Why can not the
Jehovah's Witnesses humble themselves like the Son and the Father?
Why will they not honor the Son as they honor the Father?