is there a god?

Originally posted by darvlay
Just finished high school? Never had a job?

Don't kid yourself, kid.

Patronizing and condescending now? What have I done to you to deserve this treatment, darv?

You know nothing of my life. The law and I say I am a man. Until you can prove otherwise with something other than your opinion, I am a man.

Originally posted by Darfius
Patronizing and condescending now? What have I done to you to deserve this treatment, darv?

You know nothing of my life. The law and I say I am a man. Until you can prove otherwise with something other than your opinion, I am a man.

You're right. It is my opinion. Now have fun playing with the others and don't hurt yo'self. 😛

Originally posted by blindfaith101
Why are you letting an unbeliever frustrate you? If you have spoken THE WORD OF GOD, then you have spoken truth. We are in a war and satan is a defeated foe.

You make your war on mankind and in doing so you make war on Jesus. The OT god is merely a bull god, showing nothing but contempt for man, the same contempt Darfius the follower of that bull god does. You will no longer be allowed to deceive people by mouthing words that have no meaning when seen in the context of you underlying beliefs.
You are young there still is hope for you , but turn away from that bull god and return to Christ , before it's too late for you , just as it is too late for Darfius.

Originally posted by frogstomp
You make your war on mankind and in doing so you make war on Jesus. The OT god is merely a bull god, showing nothing but contempt for man, the same contempt Darfius the follower of that bull god does. You will no longer be allowed to deceive people by mouthing words that have no meaning when seen in the context of ...[text shortened]... eturn to Christ , before it's too late for you , just as it is too late for Darfius.

I guess you can prove or backup what you say with THE WORD OF GOD of the New Testament

Originally posted by Darfius
Show me where any of the Gospels say Simon carrying the cross the whole way, please.

Your lying is really beginning to agitate me. I find it more and more difficult to forgive you everytime.

Though you're helping me somewhat, since everyone can see that you're clearly lying to keep up.

Matthew 27:32: "And as they came out [of the Guard's Barracks], they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name; him they compelled to go with them, THAT HE MIGHT BEAR THE CROSS".

Mark 15:21: "And they compel one passing by, Simon of Cyrene, coming from that country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to go with them, THAT HE MIGHT BEAR THE CROSS".

Luke 23:26 is to the same effect "THAT HE MIGHT BEAR THE CROSS AFTER JESUS" "after", of course, meaning behind Jesus as he was led to the place of execution.

Not a single one of these Gospels has Jesus EVER carrying the cross; Simon was impressed into service as soon as they left the Guard's Barracks.

John, on the other hand, NEVER mentioned Simon the Cyrene and says Jesus carried the cross the whole way himself. John 19:17: "They took Jesus therefore: and he went out, bearing the cross for himself, unto the place called The place of a skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha:"


If that isn't a contradiction, I don't know what is. Find the lie, please.

Originally posted by blindfaith101
I guess you can prove or backup what you say with THE WORD OF GOD of the New Testament

Darfius doent follow the NT he only gives it lip service,, he serves the bull god EL of the OT.

Im hoping you can see through his deception. Can you?

Matthew 27:32: "And as they came out [of the Guard's Barracks], they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name; him they compelled to go with them, THAT HE MIGHT BEAR THE CROSS".

I like how you add "of the Guard's Barracks" as if it is anywhere in the book of Matthew. How do you know where they came out of? Why couldn't they have been coming out of Jerusalem proper? Lie #1.

Mark 15:21: "And they compel one passing by, Simon of Cyrene, coming from that country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to go with them, THAT HE MIGHT BEAR THE CROSS".

Again, coming out of where? I realize you're capitalizing words to draw attention away from the fact that Jesus was probably carrying the corss beforehand.

Luke 23:26 is to the same effect "THAT HE MIGHT BEAR THE CROSS AFTER JESUS" "after", of course, meaning behind Jesus as he was led to the place of execution.

It also says Simon was coming out of the country. How can Simon be coming out of the country if they were coming out of the "Guard's barracks?" Were the "Guard barracks" at the edge of town? Then why the march? Just set up the cross outside. You're leaping about to make a weak point.

Not a single one of these Gospels has Jesus EVER carrying the cross; Simon was impressed into service as soon as they left the Guard's Barracks.

Look up Roman crucifixion. Prisoners always carried their crosses to the site. I suppose they felt compassion for Jesus after mauling and mocking Him? Give me a break. Your conspiracy theory is weak and baseless, as per usual.

John, on the other hand, NEVER mentioned Simon the Cyrene and says Jesus carried the cross the whole way himself. John 19:17: "They took Jesus therefore: and he went out, bearing the cross for himself, unto the place called The place of a skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha:"

John's Gospel was focused on stressing Jesus' divinity and suffering. It makes sense that he wouldn't mention Simon. The other Gospels present and corroborate the story of Jesus' life, John stresses His death and what it means.


If that isn't a contradiction, I don't know what is. Find the lie, please.

Where's the contradiction??? Which Gospel says ONLY Simon carried it? Where does John say ONLY Jesus carried it? Omission is not lying or contradicting. It's omission.

Originally posted by frogstomp
Darfius doent follow the NT he only gives it lip service,, he serves the bull god EL of the OT.

Im hoping you can see through his deception. Can you?

Now you're lying, which is becoming a favorite tactic of some of you of late.

I follow the NT. I read the OT for learning more about God and to enjoy the prophecies that came true.

Originally posted by Darfius
[b]Matthew 27:32: "And as they came out [of the Guard's Barracks], they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name; him they compelled to go with them, THAT HE MIGHT BEAR THE CROSS".

I like how you add "of the Guard's Barracks" as if it is anywhere in the book of Matthew. How do you know where they came out of? Why couldn't they have been coming ou ...[text shortened]... es John say ONLY Jesus carried it? Omission is not lying or contradicting. It's omission.
[/b]

I have never dealt with anyone so willing to lie about their Holy Book. I will quote each of the three Gospels at length, but I have to do it one at a time,

Matthew:

27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium, and gathered unto him the whole band.

28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.

29 And they platted a crown of thorns and put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand; and they kneeled down before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!

30 And they spat upon him, and took the reed and smote him on the head.

31 And when they had mocked him, they took off from him the robe, and put on him his garments, and led him away to crucify him.

32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to go with them, that he might bear his cross.

Maybe you never bother to read the Gospels but it is absolutely clear there: Matthew 27: 27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium, and gathered unto him the whole band.

Do you know what a Praetorium is, Darfius? Want to look it up? IT"S THE GUARD'S BARRACKS!!! Is it in Matthew? Yup, sure is. Who's the liar, Darfius?

The whole incident from Matthew 27: 27-31 takes place inside the Praetorium - the Guard's Barracks and 27:32: "AS THEY CAME OUT" is when they spotted Simon the Cyrene and made him carry the cross. There is no mention of Jesus carrying the cross although his brutal treatment is well described; why is that, Darfius? BECAUSE HE DIDN'T CARRY THE CROSS!!

Be back with Mark.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I have never dealt with anyone so willing to lie about their Holy Book. I will quote each of the three Gospels at length, but I have to do it one at a time,

Matthew:

27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium, and gathered unto him the whole band.

28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet ...[text shortened]... d; why is that, Darfius? BECAUSE HE DIDN'T CARRY THE CROSS!!

Be back with Mark.

praetorium

n : the tent of an ancient Roman general [syn: pretorium]


Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University


praetorium

The Greek word (praitorion) thus rendered in Mark 15:16 is rendered "common
hall" (Matt. 27:27, marg., "governor's house"😉, "judgment hall," (John 18:28,
33, marg., "Pilate's house", 19:9; Acts 23:35), "palace" (Phil. 1:13). This is
properly a military word. It denotes (1) the general's tent or headquarters;
(2) the governor's residence, as in Acts 23:35 (R.V., "palace"😉; and (3) the
praetorian guard (See PALACE ¯T0002827), or the camp or quarters of the
praetorian cohorts (Acts 28:16), the imperial guards in immediate attendance on
the emperor, who was "praetor" or commander-in-chief.



Highlight barracks for me.

Originally posted by Darfius
praetorium

n : the tent of an ancient Roman general [syn: pretorium]


Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University


praetorium

The Greek word (praitorion) thus rendered in Mark 15:16 is rendered "common
hall" (Matt. ...[text shortened]... praetor" or commander-in-chief.



Highlight barracks for me.

Mark's version is basically the same as Matthew's:

Mark 15:16-21

16And the soldiers led him away into the hall, called Praetorium; and they call together the whole band.

17And they clothed him with purple, and platted a crown of thorns, and put it about his head,

18And began to salute him, Hail, King of the Jews!

19And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.

20And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple from him, and put his own clothes on him, and led him out to crucify him.

21And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross.


Same story: as soon as they leave the Praetorium, they grab Simon the Cyrene to carry the Cross - Jesus never does.

or the camp or quarters of the praetorian cohorts - Highlighted.

The word is a "military" one; there are several possible meanings as pointed out in the definition. It is possible the word meant Pilate's Palace; I would ask Nemesio to give his opinion. Regardless, the point is that the Roman Guards took Jesus directly from Pilate to a nearby area, tortured him and then as soon as they left that building grabbed Simon the Cyrene. And again while his mistreatment is described in detail, NOWHERE in this Gospel is it stated he EVER carried the Cross.

Back with Luke.

EDIT: Even if it wasn't the Guard's Barracks here's what you said: "How do you know where they came out of? Why couldn't they have been coming out of Jerusalem proper?"
We know where they were coming from; the Praetorium, not Jerusalem proper. Apparently you didn't bother to check before calling me a liar.

Originally posted by Darfius
Now you're lying, which is becoming a favorite tactic of some of you of late.

I follow the NT. I read the OT for learning more about God and to enjoy the prophecies that came true.

and yet you justify mass murder in the name of that bull god,,, as if Jesus never existed.
saying thats lying just shows how obnoxious you are.

you said exactly what I said you said " the whoring women went to hell ..."
Not even remotely what Christ taught.

So who's is lying Darfius... me or your own foul works?

Luke is shorter; he doesn't give any account of the soldier's mistreatment of Jesus and basically just has him led away from Pilate.

Luke 23: 26-27

26 And when they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon of Cyrene, coming from the country, and laid on him the cross, to bear it after Jesus.

27 And there followed him a great multitude of the people, and of women who bewailed and lamented him

Again, as soon as he was led away, they grab Simon of Cyrene - "coming from the country" seems to be a reference to Cyrene (modern Libya, I believe); the passage in Mark says "coming from that country". The cross is laid upon Simon to bear it after Jesus and there followed him a great multitude ...." Luke is describing the order of march: Jesus, after him Simon the Cyrene, following them the multitude. Jesus does not carry the cross at all.

Now you can retract your statement calling me a liar; the Gospels say EXACTLY where they were coming from and neither Matthew, Mark or Luke have Jesus carrying the cross. That's what I said and that's what's in these Gospels.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Luke 23:26 And when they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon of Cyrene, coming from the country, and laid on him the cross, to bear it after Jesus.

Let us stop beating around the bush here.

Kai os apegagon auton, epilabomenoi Simona tina Kyrenaion erchomenon ap
And as they led off him, having taken on Simon some Cyrenean coming from

agrou epethekan auto ton stauron pherein opisthen tou Iesou.
field they set on him the cross to carry from behind the Jesus.

That is: As they led Him away, they seized Simon the Cyrene who was coming out of
the field (or country) and laid the Cross on him, and made him carry it behind Jesus.

The text is very clear here. As Jesus was being led away, Simon was indentured to
carry the Cross. You can invent a special magic passage that says Jesus carried it
first, but the fact is this text says no such thing. There is no temporal ambiguity in
St Luke. As Jesus was being led away, Simon donned the Cross.

St John changed the story to reflect his own theological notion of what Jesus was
and how his mission was viewed.

The contradiction is incontravertable. St Luke - Simon carried it from the beginning.
St John - Jesus carried it from the beginning.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Let us stop beating around the bush here.

Kai os apegagon auton, epilabomenoi Simona tina Kyrenaion erchomenon ap
[b]And as they led off him, having taken on Simon some Cyrenean coming from

[i]agrou epethekan auto ton stau ...[text shortened]... inning.
St John - Jesus carried it from the beginning.

Nemesio[/b]

[/i]And the contradiction is a problem only if one feels compelled to defend factual/historical inerrancy in the Bible, which, as this example makes quite clear, is not possible without making things up. And this does not appear to have been a problem for the early church, e.g. the apostolic fathers.