@josephw saidSorry for the delayed response
What do you mean "NOT as immortals"?
Immortal means can’t be killed. Those of the heavenly calling may well fit into this category, so I was incorrect not to break it down in my original post, but those of the earthly calling would appear to be eternal - can be killed.
@medullah saidNo problem
Sorry for the delayed response
Immortal means can’t be killed. Those of the heavenly calling may well fit into this category, so I was incorrect not to break it down in my original post, but those of the earthly calling would appear to be eternal - can be killed.
Probably the most interesting idea I've heard in this forum in quite a while.
Let me see if I understand what you mean. "Earthly calling", perhaps terrestrial, made of matter, in the original state of creation, being "eternal", can be killed or die physically, but those who attain a "heavenly calling" are immortal in that they cannot be killed; I'm assuming because they are constructed of material suited to immortality.
Is that correct?
Can I help in any way to further describe passages on God's eternal purpose today?
Ephesians is definitely the book to go to, but certainly not exclusively so.
You read Ephesians for a thirty days. It is only six chapters. In my opinion your life will be elevated into the spiritual and be changed. My, just the first three chapters for a week, will clear your head and enlighten your being.
I think the time Paul spent in that city caused those believers to be wide open to whatever he knew. And he poured out everything he had from God to those in Ephesus. What a letter!
And Colossians is like it.
I have no idea what 'we-ized' means,
It means that "we" who are in the Body of Christ are destined that God be dispensed into us. Of course those without being in Christ must come into Christ through faith to partake of the same process and destiny of we believers in Christ.
He is still bring people in.
but I do believe that God's life is to be in us and us in God. So there is what Jesus prayed about that we would be one as He and the Father are One. Which is a loving relationship, and only with the life of God in us could that ever be possible. A couple of examples:
(John 17:11) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Notice that this oneness is the culmination of the process. That process can be called perfecting.
"I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into ine . . .
(v.23a)
This PERFECTING doesn't start when the we is in heaven. It starts from the very beginning of Him coming into His people. We can slow the perfecting. We cannot stop it.
PERFECTING is a kind of something - ization, because it is a process.
"Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ." (Eph. 4:13) is the Apostle Paul's echoing of the perfecting process that Jesus petitioned His Father for. The same thought is there both Jesus first and then in Paul.
Preceding verse 13 Paul even speaks ofg PERFECTING in the immediately previous sentence.
"For the PERFECTING of the saints unto the work of ministry, unto the building up of the Body of Christ, until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith . . . etc. etc." (vs 12.13a)
Yes, that means that Christians feeding one another with the food of edification, fellowship, ministry is their participating in this perfecting whether they realize it or not.
That is why I am thrilled to see brothers and sisters ministering Christ to one another here in spite of other theings. They are doing this perfecting perhaps without realizing they are.
"And He Himself gave some as aostles andsome as prophets and some as evangelists and some as shepherds and treachers for the perfecting of the saints unto the work of the ministry, unto the building up of the Body of Christ." (vs11,12)
Cont. with KellyJay,
John 15:4
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
We-ization could be seen in John 15 because the "you" there is a corporate "you" - a collective "you".
We who are beleivers in Christ are all a part of this "you" in principle. We are the branches extending the functionality of the true vine.
The vine and the abiding branches in the vine are ONE organism - a vine tree.
Can you see then some so-called "We-izing" in that together Christ and we the abiding branches absolutely form ONE organism?
Christ is the true vine and WE who are saved are the branches. He exhorts the believers to abide in Him for the purpose that He may abide in us.
This is an interesting command - "Abide Me and I in you."
The "Me" is Jesus Christ, the true vine. The "you" is not just an individual you but a corperate "you". And the command amounts to -
"Abide in Me" for that result intended that I abide in you.
It is a command for Christ to abide, to remain, to live, and to be living in the collective and corporate "you". The "you" is not individual but WE. WE just need to have the realization that WE are the branches and HE is the true vine.
The way to ABIDE in Him and He in us is firstly to SEE the truth that we are the branches and He is the true vine . The first matter of the method of abiding in Christ is to first SEE the revelation that He is the vine and we are the abiding branches.
"Abide in Me and I in you." can be thought of (from the standpoint of the obedient branches) as the [i]"WE-ization"[/b] of the Triune God. For the life of the Ttriune God has its source in the Father and the husbandman, its embodiment in Christ the Son, the true vine, and its flow and transmission in the Holy Spirit flowing out into the abiding branches - the "you" - the we if we are in Christ.
Amen.
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidDon't you have some psychiatrists to organize?
@sonship said
The eternal plan of God is that God would be SEEN in that God would be (if you will) WE-IZED. God would mass produce the mingling of humanity and divinity of the Firstborn Son of God.
Do other Christians recognize the above as God's eternal plan, as laid out in scripture? Or has sonship completely lost the plot?
Cont. with KellyJay.
Abide in Me and I in you - is a MUTUAL abiding. As a result of the WE abiding in Him He lives in the WE.
In fact more and more we would take on His desire and ask things according to His will. More and more we would petition God for His plan to be fulfilled. And He would do it because in love we love one another and abide in Christ.
"If you abide in Me and My words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you. In this is My Father glorified, that you bear much fruit and so you will become My disciples." (vs, 7,8)
The organism of Christ the true vine and the abiding branches loving one another encrease in sensativity to the will of God. Their asking becomes more and more in tune with His will and His eternal purpose. Of course asking according to His desire is answered. And in this He is glorified.
You know on His heart is the bearing of fruit and the adding of more and more abiding branches in Christ. The asking certainly will become more and more of His will to bear fruit - meaning to dispense His life into more people attached TO Him.
In John 15 the verb form of the same word is used as is found in John 14:23
The plural noun form ABODES.
" . . . believe into God, believe also into Me. In My Father's house are many ABODES . . . "(see John 14:1,2). [/b]
The verb form - ABIDE
"Abide in Me and I in you." (John 15:4)
The singular form ABODE
"If anyone loves Me he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an ABODE with him." (John 14:23)
The verb form again - "ABIDES"
"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it ABIDES in the vine, so neiother can you unless you abide in ME." (John 15;4) .
From the standpoint of John 14 the We-ization is "My Father's house". From the standpoint of John 15 the same entity is the true vine with the abiding branches beading fruit. One organism of the Triune God with man mutually living in Him and He is them.
@sonship saidI don't believe anyone is saved except that they come to Christ, and He sanctifies them; we will be what we are meant to be, and that isn't known yet, it has not even entered into the hearts of man.
In John 15 the verb form of the same word is used as is found in John 14:23
The plural noun form ABODES.
" . . . believe into God, believe also into Me. In My Father's house are many ABODES . . . "(see John 14:1,2). [/b]
The verb form - ABIDE
"Abide in Me and I in you." (John 15:4)
The singular f ...[text shortened]... anches beading fruit. One organism of the Triune God with man mutually living in Him and He is them.
Too many have reduced salvation and the sanctification of God down to just our saying a few words, and they are in, no it is Christ alone who saves us, our going to Him, His acceptance is giving Himself to us as we give ourselves to Him, that is a lifetime commitment not few sentences uttered.
@kellyjay saidI thought the whole of the bible says the same thing.
I don't believe anyone is saved except that they come to Christ, and He sanctifies them; we will be what we are meant to be, and that isn't known yet, it has not even entered into the hearts of man.
Too many have reduced salvation and the sanctification of God down to just our saying a few words, and they are in, no it is Christ alone who saves us, our going to Him, His ...[text shortened]... Himself to us as we give ourselves to Him, that is a lifetime commitment not few sentences uttered.
You said
I don't believe anyone is saved except that they come to Christ, and He sanctifies them;
Paul said
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. (1 Timothy 2:11-15 KJV)
You dont believe the bible is the inspired word of God anymore, or are you just another cherrypicker.
@rajk999 saidYes, we come to God; it is God who saves us. We do not earn our way in; He did that. If we are not abiding in Him, we have no part in Him if He isn't in us.
I thought the whole of the bible says the same thing.
You said
I don't believe anyone is saved except that they come to Christ, and He sanctifies them;
Paul said
[i]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was ...[text shortened]... ou dont believe the bible is the inspired word of God anymore, or are you just another cherrypicker.