Why can't it just be another naturally evolving, mutating virus, not created or 'put here' by any supernatural entity? Malaria (I know, malaria is a disease, not a virus, but the effect is the same) kills 100s of 1000s of people every year, and now because this particular nasty effects the west people are calling it the devils' work, or god's vengeance on the sinful, or whatever. It' could be just one of 100s of 1000s of viruses floating around the world, nothing more, nothing less, don't you think?
@indonesia-phil saidIt depends on what kind of god one believes in, I guess. The deist's god is not expected to interfere, so there is nothing to explain.
Why can't it just be another naturally evolving, mutating virus, not created or 'put here' by any supernatural entity? Malaria (I know, malaria is a disease, not a virus, but the effect is the same) kills 100s of 1000s of people every year, and now because this particular nasty effects the west people are calling it the devils' work, or god's vengeance on the sinful, o ...[text shortened]... of 100s of 1000s of viruses floating around the world, nothing more, nothing less, don't you think?
Then there's the kind of people I used to go to church with. They believed there was active "spiritual warfare" - "angels vs. demons" - everyday and everywhere. Now they are the type who jump at the chance to explain. It's usually "God's" punishment for some societal sin, or demonic interference, or both.
@kegge saidInteresting take.
But you said: "Viruses had a purpose at one time, perhaps in DNA sharing among early organisms, to fuel evolution. Today, their purpose exhausted, they may usher in the last 'plagues' of mankind. "
That's why I asked what makes you think (not know) viruses don't have purpose anymore. Viruses do share DNA between organisms, hence they influence the evolution of those organism ...[text shortened]... rganisms still goes on (which is a scientific fact) do you still feel god doesn't interfere anymore?
Of course evolution is still going on, it is part of the physical world, ruled by laws God set forth when he breathed the universe into being and started the process. But evolution was the process by which God created man. That is the "purpose which has exhausted". Their main purpose. Evolution that continues today won't lead to an "uber-being" greater than man. Man is the pinnacle. But this doesn't mean that the role of viruses is over. We're told that plagues and disease will be rampant in the times leading up to "the end". Perhaps this is their last role.
Yes, God has a plan, and his plan is nearing completion. There is no more need for him to interfere until the final act of this play.
@suzianne saidHumans in the future will be cyborgs, far greater than we are today as a species.
Interesting take.
Of course evolution is still going on, it is part of the physical world, ruled by laws God set forth when he breathed the universe into being and started the process. But evolution was the process by which God created man. That is the "purpose which has exhausted". Their main purpose. Evolution that continues today won't lead to an "uber-being" great ...[text shortened]... is nearing completion. There is no more need for him to interfere until the final act of this play.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYet built in man's image, and therefore inferior.
Humans in the future will be cyborgs, far greater than we are today as a species.
@suzianne saidIf man is made in God's image, then a cyborg built in man's image will still (indirectly) be in God's image and not inferior.
Yet built in man's image, and therefore inferior.
As an aside, when God said '“Let Us make man in Our image' (and bearing in mind you accept mankind had to evolve to attain that image) how do you know we have yet attained that image and completed our evolution? Perhaps God is Himself a cyborg and it is only really when we have fully embraced technology and become cyborgs ourselves that we can truly say we are in God's image.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidFor one thing, the covenant made with man in Genesis would not have happened until evolution had completed its job, so yeah, we're human, and no further evolution is necessary.
If man is made in God's image, then a cyborg built in man's image will still (indirectly) be in God's image and not inferior.
As an aside, when God said '“Let Us make man in Our image' (and bearing in mind you accept mankind had to evolve to attain that image) how do you know we have yet attained that image and completed our evolution? Perhaps God is Himself a cybo ...[text shortened]... fully embraced technology and become cyborgs ourselves that we can truly say we are in God's image.
Cyborgs would be made by man in man's image, and therefore inferior, just as much as an art forgery is inferior to the work it copies.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidi need the folks running the cyborgs-r-us show to front me a left eyeball
Humans in the future will be cyborgs, far greater than we are today as a species.
the one i have, initially issued in the mid-50s, has outlived its useful purpose and is declining
can you put me in touch?
i'll sign the papers
@dj2becker saidIt's difficult to see how free will has anything to do with transmission of the virus, at least prior to the various non-pharmceutical interventions that the world's governments adopted. The evidence is that someone who has contracted the virus becomes infectious before they start showing symptoms, so they are not aware that they are infected and those infected by them do not know either. So there is no exercise of will involved. So I think that you have some work to do to justify a combination of omnibenevolence and pandemics. I don't think a free will argument will do it.
I agree. Free-will is the only plausible explanation that I have seen that makes suffering compatible with a omnibenevolent God.
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@suzianne saidIsn't it a bit arrogant to say/think man is the pinnacle of evolution? There is no proof evolution has stopped, on the contrary; genomes constantly and continuously change. This leaves the possibilty a being surpassing our abilities will evolve eventually wide open. If this, for now, hypothetical being stops destroying the Earth and killing its own kind I'll argue it is a lot greater than humanity has ever been.
Interesting take.
Of course evolution is still going on, it is part of the physical world, ruled by laws God set forth when he breathed the universe into being and started the process. But evolution was the process by which God created man. That is the "purpose which has exhausted". Their main purpose. Evolution that continues today won't lead to an "uber-being" great ...[text shortened]... is nearing completion. There is no more need for him to interfere until the final act of this play.
This ongoing evolution on Earth has a place for viruses. As has been shown they perform an important roll when spreading themselves to other hosts, changing our DNA and that is, par excellence, what defines evolution.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIs there a waiting list to become a cyborg?
Humans in the future will be cyborgs, far greater than we are today as a species.
I have a synthetic lens in my right eye that works great. It would be nice to have all my old broken down parts replaced with virus resistant components.
@secondson saidI can point you in the right direction, for a nominal fee of 3 million pounds.
Is there a waiting list to become a cyborg?
I have a synthetic lens in my right eye that works great. It would be nice to have all my old broken down parts replaced with virus resistant components.