Ivory Tower Blessed Are They Forum

I thought I would include a little excerpt from The Door magazine to give you a flavor of their wonderful spirit.

The Abmoninable Snow-Job From the Rogue of Baton Rogue

Playing off the affirmations from the congregation, Jimmy moved down the steps, and leaned into the front row of worshipers to say, "I've never seen a man in my life that I wanted to marry (loud laughter and clapping). I'm gonna be blunt and plain. If one ever looks at me like that, I am gonna kill him and tell God he died" (raucous applause and praises to God fill the room).

He went on to slander those supporting civil servants who defended this as "a bum nation" or whatever the word was, noting that "they ought to have to marry a pig and live with them forever" (hooting and howling by all). Of course he assured the laughing crowd, "I'm not knocking the poor homosexual. They need to be saved just like anybody else." What a generous act of inclusion!

Is there a pattern here, calling for curses from heaven upon others, only to be caught doing something of like manner? Could Swaggerts frothing disdain for gays be a homophobic cover-up? If so, who might he be hustling out of a hotel room next month?

I have started reading them, read the older ones and will continue to read them as they are written. Rock on.

Originally posted by royalchicken
I have started reading them, read the older ones and will continue to read them as they are written. Rock on.

Mark, I would be interested in hearing more about your reaction to these readings as you are a young person and have a critical mind in aspects of faith.

I can assure you that I have not intentionally left women out of this thread. My next addition is a woman and from the Jewish faith tradition. I stumbled across her quite by accident some months ago. Some of our most lamentable examples of faith today come from the airwaves. Well so does Ellen Kushner.

Her background is in storytelling and literature. She is the author of numerous books, but what I enjoy, at least where I live, is listening to her on the radio as I come home from church. Her program "Sound and Spirit" is a wonderful hour of music and story telling from a variety of faith traditions. It is intelligent radio and very well done.

Now if you are thinking that you're are going to get a dose of religion on Sunday morning, hang on to your hat. It may be that you get a sacred choir performing traditonal Christian music. Or it may be, as this morning was, a program about voodoo. There is NO judgment! It is all good as it informs people of a variety of religious traditions that speak to the human condition from a variety of points of view. If you believe Jesus is the only way, that's fine. However, I encourage you to give her a listen and open yourself to learning. I have.

One of the things I appreciate about her approach is that faith can be fun and still not denegrate our intelligence. I only wish she had a "Billy Graham" following.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Mark, I would be interested in hearing more about your reaction to these readings as you are a young person and have a critical mind in aspects of faith.

I was on a bus home from the airport last June and overheard a conversation, one of whose participants said 'Yeah, a dudemaster is a total dude who's so cool he's almost a prophet'. I thought this was quite silly, but it stuck with me the way things often do when taken out of context on public transport (this is sort of a hobby), and on running into an old friend a few days later I mentioned this. Apparently, he had heard the word 'dudemaster' being 'defined' in similar circumstances.

I worked in a shipping warehouse this summer, with the same friend, and boredom propmted us to try to work up a proper definition for this new word, based on the fatuous snippets we'd heard. We didn't think in terms of faith exactly, as literal faith is a philosophical dead-end for me and my friend is a student of a Buddhist monk and very vague on matters of faith. Instead, we thought in humanistic terms. Although the word itself became largely a joke, we were very serious about the concepts it represents.

All argument about consciousness and free will aside, practically speaking everyone is given (or develops-bollocks to nature/nurture a.t.m.) the potential to, through the use of minds and hands and 'hearts', affect and understand the world. Improvement of oneself and one's surroundings (even on a very large scale) is something I realised I value quite highly. I also respect anyone who assists others in this pursuit.

I came to visualise a less psychobollocks version of the phrase 'self-actualised' as part of the definition of 'dudemaster' -- an individual who is a force for Good and Truth is a DM.

Many of the people you have discussed evoked that very idealistic image. I'm not being at all 'critical' in this description; instead your posts have tended to fit with a vague image of some of the things I respect in a person. They're also historically interesting.

Originally posted by royalchicken
I was on a bus home from the airport last June and overheard a conversation, one of whose participants said 'Yeah, a [b]dudemaster is a total dude who's so cool he's almost a prophet'. I thought this was quite silly, but it stuck with me the way things often do when taken out of context on public transport (this is sort of a hobby), and on runn ...[text shortened]... ague image of some of the things I respect in a person. They're also historically interesting.[/b]

This just affirms my belief that indeed young people today are indeed spiritual, but the church has yet to figure out their language.

None of you recall the name Agnes Bojaxhui, yet she may be the most recognizable of my nominees to date. She was born in 1910 in Skopje, Macedonia. Today if you go to the large square in Skopje you will find four bricks that outline the roughly 20x15 place of her birth. One would expect more of a memorial for a woman who would eventually win the Nobel Peace prize, but she was a "filthy Albanian", a group singled out for extreme prejudice in that area. You know her as Mother Teresa.

Early in life she felt God's call and entered into a religious order. She eventually taught school in Calcutta, but was deeply moved by the poverty she saw out the classroom windows. She got permission to start an order to minister to the poorest and sickest of Calcutta's ghettos. I believe that the nuns of this order had only 2 or 3 garments that they had for themselves. Her selfless giving to these people at times made her more popular than the Pope, but she always saw him as the "authority."

She was once asked by a member of the press who had followed her why she didn't seem to be overwhelmed with the suffering in her midst. She responded that God did not call her to end all the suffering of the world, but only to minister to what she was able. I once heard her speak but I honestly don't recall a single word she said, but I do recall a woman of deep conviction.

Mother Teresa died on Sept. 5, 1997, the same day as Princess Diana. It was inevitable that comparisons and contrasts were made of their lives.

Jesus said "where your treasure are, there also will your heart be." My next addition to this thread really doesn't fit into the mold of the past people in that he is not really a theologian, but he helps people with one of the most troubling aspects of modern living. Money.

On the theological spectrum Dave Ramsey is probably conservative and an evangelical. I first heard of him as I was driving a lot at nights and I would hear him at 2AM counseling people with severe money problems. In a way he does fit the mold of our other nominees in that he had his mid-life crisis where he had to sort out his life priorities. He was a real estate investor. Became very wealthy early in his life. He also became bankrupt very early in his life. He made a lot of "stupid financial decisions" that cost him everything.

It was out of these life experiences that he decided to get his priorities straight (theologically and financially) and devote his life to helping other people with money problems. Debt is just another form of slavery and he felt a calling to help people face the consequences of foolishness when it comes to money.

Today, there is a network of "approved financial counselors" that have learned from his advice (and his mistakes) that seek to help change the financial culture of this country. Basically the financial culture of htis country is to live in debt, live beyond your means, expect government to bail you out , and to not prepare for your future.

I think one thing that you might expect in the future is that Oprah (yes, I hate to admit it) is grooming him to be the next "Dr. Phil." Like Dr. Phil, Dave Ramsey can be very empathetic, but it's a no BS zone.

To learn more visit www.daveramsey.com

Let's continue the theme of money as today is World Hunger Sunday. Some of you, at least in the US, may recall a time when Wall Street was a place to make a lot of money quickly. The names of Ivan Bosky and Michael Milken became synonomous with Wall Street greed and corruption. I would like to focus on Michael Milken. I have no idea what religious persuasion he comes from but I find his story compelling. Even before he was charged with security irregularities he was very involved in philothrapic work. His wealth and earnings were so enormous that it tended to shadow that out.

Milken was eventually found guilty of his crimes and sent to prison for 22 months and fined $200 million. While in prison he developed prostate cancer. When he left he went on the warpath to promote awareness and a cure for this disease. It was his goal to speed up research that usually had to wait for long approval times. Today he works closely with physicians in developing new medicines as well as raising money for this research.

Even today, Milken has the cloud of his past hanging over him to the point that people are more interested in his opinions about WorldCom and Enron than the day to day work he does to help find a cure for various cancers.

I find Milken an interesting man on several counts. He could have left prison bitter and rich even with the $200 million dollar fine. Yet he, like many of the others in this thread found a new passion and calling in the face of disappointment. The other interesting aspect of his life is the issue of how much we must atone for our sins before society will forgive us.

i am going into a diabetic coma here
anyone got a hypo full of insulyn???

Originally posted by aspviper666
i am going into a diabetic coma here
anyone got a hypo full of insulyn???

There's a young EMT on the site by the name of RBHill. I think he may have just what you need. 🙂

OK, class, moving along. I had the priviledge of meeting our next nominee several years ago and he has always been a role model for me in that I think he has perfected a lost art, the art of listening.

Bill Moyers grew up in Texas and was raised in the conservative religious climate of Texas. Went to seminary there and was a Baptist pastor. He eventually headed up the Peace Corp. He was such a bridge builder that in November of 1963 he was asked to help mediate the various political factions taking place in Texas. Essentially he was very involved in the logistics of the events on Nov. 22, 1963, the day Kennedy was assasinated. He became Lyndon Johnson's close advisor and eventually his press secretary. When he did resign this position, Moyers was the one person that Johnson most regretted he didn't reconcile with.

If you have read the previous posts, you will see that many of our nominees find new callings in life. Moyers today is best known for his award winning documentaries on Public Television. He has done many series ranging from authors who are on the cutting edge of interpreting our culture , political corruption, alternative wellness, hospices, and my favorite, round table discussions of people from various faith traditions discussing the Book of Genesis.

We hear a lot of discussions in our own forums about evolution, creationism, literalism, varous interpretations of Scripture, church history etc. I encourage you to read Moyers' book "Genesis" or even look at it on tape and you will find a spirit of discussion and listening that I find to be a real luxur, especially in a time of talk radio and....well... never mind. I promised to keep this thread positive.

rrrrrright
i need to be a hypocrite and become brain dead like hill???

I'm going to dedicate this next one to RBHill as he inspired me to recall this man's story with his thread about what atheists thought of "God Bless America."

I have no idea what faith orientation Woody Guthrie came from, but I can tell you he was consumed with the human condition. Thank God he had an outlet in his guitar and his voice. He was no Caruso or Pavoratti, but that was OK, he didn't need to be. He was a keen observer of the world around him in the depression era of the midwest. His family was fairly well off, however a series of tragedies would help form his darker outlook on society. The first was a house fire that killed his older sister. Soon after that the great depression came and the resulting financial ruin. Eventually his mother was institutionalized.

Woody took up the life of a hobo. Hitching rides on freight trains, on cars and even walking to California helped to develop in him a profound sense of love for the openess of creation. In this time he became well acquainted with the scorn and hatred that greeted the dispossessed in California. During these years he found forums to take on social causes ranging from corrupt politicians, unions, lawyers and even the humanistic principles of Jesus.

He was a wanderer in all aspects of his life. He had several failed marriages and when it seemed his life was becoming stable his behavior started to become erratic. He was diagnosed with everything from alcoholism to schizophrenia. Actually he had a progressive neurological disease called Huntingtons Chorea, the same disease that institutionalized his mother. This disease eventually robbed him of his health , talents and abilities. He died in 1967.

Let's back up a bit. Just before his health began to deteriorate he wrote a collection of children's songs called "Songs to Grow On." It was out of this collection that we know his most famous song that most of us (in the US) learned in grade school. It was called "This Land is Your Land, This Land is My Land." It is a wonderful ballad that you may not know was written as a protest song, which brings us back to RBHill's thread. This particular song was a protest song against the song "God Bless America." Perhaps it might be more accurate to say he wrote it in response as a way to balance out its gradiosity with the common man's perspective.

I have one fantasy of what I would do if I were President. I would change our national anthem to "This Land is Your Land".

Most of us may have learned "This Land is Your Land" in grade school, but we only learned some of the verses.

I didn't learn, for example:

As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!

There have been many spin offs from his song--our true national anthem--from a JibJab cartoon to the Forbes list of largest private land owners (Ted Turner tops the list) to the excellent John Lee Hooker song, "This Land is Nobody's Land."