1. Standard membersonship
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    21 May '14 11:322 edits
    This thread will be about Jacob.

    But if you are interested in talking about Jacob I suggest you read through Genesis chapter 28:10-22. That is the chapter about the young man Jacob having his dream of a ladder set up on the earth and angels ascending and descending upon it.

    The Bible is like a mountain range. Along the journey through it there are certain high peaks. When you ascend to those high places you can see from afar the final destination of the journey. You can get a glimpse of the ultimate conclusion of the 66 books of the Bible from a vantage point.

    Genesis 28:10-22, I think, is one of those early mountain peaks indicating where the whole revelation of God is heading. I love this chapter. And Jacob is such a significant figure in Genesis. More space is given the life of Jacob than any other figure in Genesis.

    My comments will be steered towards this subject matter - Jacob in Genesis and the meaning of chapter 28:10-22.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    21 May '14 12:061 edit
    Of all the people Genesis speaks of the most space is given to the life of Jacob.

    Jacob is the third in an important threesome - Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Anyone have any thoughts on why Genesis gives so much space to the life of Jacob ?

    Do not be afraid of "wrong" answers. They may not be wrong.
    If they are frivolous or wisecracks, they'll be unimportant "contributions".

    I should add that "the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" also is significant. It speaks of the trinity and it speaks also of God's total operation upon the saved humanity.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    21 May '14 12:202 edits
    Genesis 28:10-22 (verses 10,11,12)



    And Jacob went out from Beersheba and went toward Haran.
    And He came to a certain place and spent the night there, because the sun had set; and he took one of the stones of the place and put it under his head, and he lay down in that place.


    He set up a stone to be his pillow. How would you like to sleep with a stone for a pillow ?


    And he dreamed: There was a ladder set up in the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.


    Kind of reminds me of the Tower of Babel which had its top in the heavens in Genesis 11. What a chapter. The Bible is so profound.
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    21 May '14 12:27
    Originally posted by sonship
    Of all the people Genesis speaks of the most space is given to the life of [b]Jacob.

    Jacob is the third in an important threesome - Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Anyone have any thoughts on why Genesis gives so much space to the life of Jacob ?

    Do not be afraid of "wrong" answers. They may not be wrong.
    If they are frivolous or wisecrac ...[text shortened]... t. It speaks of the trinity and it speaks also of God's total operation upon the saved humanity.[/b]
    Not sure why so much space is given to the life of Jacob, nor do I know that that is significant. Although it may be.

    I know that Jacob is significant to the nation of Israel, but how is he important to the church? Not to diminish from Jacob of course.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    21 May '14 12:271 edit
    Genesis 28:10-22 (verses 13,14,15)



    And there was Jehovah, standing above it; and He said, I am Jehovah, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac. The land on which you lie, I will give to you and to your seed.

    And your seed will be as the dust of the earth, and you will spread abroad to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south, and in you and in your seed will all the families of the earth be blessed.

    And, behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you and will cause you to return to this land, for I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.
  6. Standard membersonship
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    21 May '14 12:30
    Originally posted by josephw
    Not sure why so much space is given to the life of Jacob, nor do I know that that is significant. Although it may be.

    I know that Jacob is significant to the nation of Israel, but how is he important to the church? Not to diminish from Jacob of course.
    Not sure why so much space is given to the life of Jacob, nor do I know that that is significant. Although it may be.

    I know that Jacob is significant to the nation of Israel, but how is he important to the church? Not to diminish from Jacob of course.


    I think you have a excellent point. Because the Jews were blessed by the book of Genesis long before the creation of the new covenant church. So Jacob is meaningful to both the OT and the NT.

    I will be focusing more from the standpoint of the NT because the NT continues God's plan from the OT.

    Jacob had his name changed to Israel and was the father of the men who headed the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Back shortly.
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    21 May '14 12:45
    Originally posted by sonship
    Not sure why so much space is given to the life of Jacob, nor do I know that that is significant. Although it may be.

    I know that Jacob is significant to the nation of Israel, but how is he important to the church? Not to diminish from Jacob of course.


    I think you have a excellent point. Because the Jews were blessed by the book of Ge ...[text shortened]... ael
    and was the father of the men who headed the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Back shortly.[/b]
    Okay, but, I will be in and out only periodically. Which is to say I may not always be on point.

    You say "new covenant church". Are you saying that the "new covenant", spoken of in the Old Testament, is made with the "church the body of Christ"?
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    21 May '14 12:56
    Originally posted by sonship
    This thread will be about [b]Jacob.[/b]
    As a matter of interest, how does Jacob figure in Islamic theology?
  9. Standard membersonship
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    21 May '14 13:03
    Originally posted by josephw
    Okay, but, I will be in and out only periodically. Which is to say I may not always be on point.

    You say "new covenant church". Are you saying that the "new covenant", spoken of in the Old Testament, is made with the "church the body of Christ"?
    Okay, but, I will be in and out only periodically. Which is to say I may not always be on point.

    You say "new covenant church". Are you saying that the "new covenant", spoken of in the Old Testament, is made with the "church the body of Christ"?


    To try to stick to my topic - We should not think of God having more than one building. IE. one for the Jews and another for the Gentiles.

    We are going to see that Bethel meaning "the house of God" in the end of the Bible is built with a new humanity consisting of both Jews and Gentiles. That is one new man - a deified new humanity.

    I said above the Genesis 28 us one of those high peaks in the Bible from which we see over a vast mountain range at the final climax of the whole Bible. In the end there is New Jerusalem as the "Bethel" - the house of God. It is the church enlarged. She has upon her twelve foundations the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb - signifying the new covenant saints. And she has written over her gates the names of the twelve tribes of Israel - signifying the old covenant saints.

    Do not read "new covenant" as meaning only Gentiles.
    Do not read "Body of Christ" to mean only Gentiles.
    And we should think of God as having only one consummate structure in the universe which He is building as His "house". A place within humanity for God and man to dwell in union.
  10. Standard membersonship
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    21 May '14 13:05
    Originally posted by FMF
    As a matter of interest, how does Jacob figure in Islamic theology?
    Without studying what the Quran says about Jacob I could not tell you.

    That is all I can say on this thread for the next few hours.
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    21 May '14 18:161 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    As a matter of interest, how does Jacob figure in Islamic theology?
    He doesn't, necessarily. As far as I know.

    Galatians 4:22-31
    For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
    But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
    Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
    For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
    But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
    For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
    Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
    But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.
    Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
    So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

    Ishmael was Abraham's first son born of the bondwoman. Most of the Arab world are his descendants. There is more about this in the genesis record concerning Abraham. If you read it all carefully much may fall into place for you in answer to your question. And more besides!
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    21 May '14 18:22
    Originally posted by sonship
    Okay, but, I will be in and out only periodically. Which is to say I may not always be on point.

    You say "new covenant church". Are you saying that the "new covenant", spoken of in the Old Testament, is made with the "church the body of Christ"?


    To try to stick to my topic - We should not think of God having more than one buildin ...[text shortened]... which He is building as His "house". A place within humanity for God and man to dwell in union.
    An interesting theological perspective. Can you point me in the direction of some reading material? Some commentaries that outline that Biblical view?
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    21 May '14 18:47
    Originally posted by sonship
    Of all the people Genesis speaks of the most space is given to the life of [b]Jacob.

    Jacob is the third in an important threesome - Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Anyone have any thoughts on why Genesis gives so much space to the life of Jacob ?

    Do not be afraid of "wrong" answers. They may not be wrong.
    If they are frivolous or wisecrac ...[text shortened]... t. It speaks of the trinity and it speaks also of God's total operation upon the saved humanity.[/b]
    As you know I don't believe your doctrine of the trinity so I'm afraid that after genuinely capturing my interest your doctrinal slant has forced me out of what could have been an excellent topic.
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    21 May '14 18:51
    I see the ladder as a typification of Jesus btw.
  15. Standard membersonship
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    21 May '14 21:361 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    An interesting theological perspective. Can you point me in the direction of some reading material? Some commentaries that outline that Biblical view?
    The Vision of God's Building by Witness Lee

    http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=0D1DC9
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