Jaywill and Rajk999's discussion

Jaywill and Rajk999, I have noticed your discussion on the thread "be careful what you pray for". I seen where Jaywill has asked for the discussion to be on another thread and not that one, however, I have seen no effort from Rajk999 to take it to another thread, so I have started this one.

Rajk999, I would also like to address your first post in that thread. You said "Christians all over the world are being taught that as long as you are born again and accept Christ as your personal saviour ... you are saved and your salvation is assured."

You are right, they are taught that and I do see a problem with it. The 'accept Christ' part for one, however, that is not what I was wanting to address. It is your comment on the fact that those taught that if they are born again they'er salvation is assured. This I do believe, however, you said in another post that they are taught this and not taught that they have to do works. This is true for the most part. But if they are truly born again and study their Bible, they will see that they do have to do the works, not to be saved, but to be sure of their salvation. If they have the desire to do the works it lets others and most importantly them selves that they are truly born again. However, if they do the works thinking that it somehow gives them merit or salvation it is in vain. This is a works based faith which takes away the work of Christ.

Originally posted by pritybetta
....not to be saved, but to be sure of their salvation....

Could you explain what is the difference, between 'being saved' and 'being sure of salvation'?

Originally posted by pritybetta
Jaywill and Rajk999, I have noticed your discussion on the thread "be careful what you pray for". I seen where Jaywill has asked for the discussion to be on another thread and not that one, however, I have seen no effort from Rajk999 to take it to another thread, so I have started this one.

Rajk999, I would also like to address your first post in that ...[text shortened]... salvation it is in vain. This is a works based faith which takes away the work of Christ.

I would like to see an answer to Snowinscotland's question please.

Also is there something called truly born again and
no-so-truly born again ? If so please explain what happens to such persons.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I would like to see an answer to Snowinscotland's question please.

Also is there something called truly born again and
no-so-truly born again ? If so please explain what happens to such persons.

Rajk999,

I gather that you are a person of few words. I will wait for you to express something in a definitive way. If it calls for a comment, I'll have one.

But I don't want to drag information from you like pulling teeth.

What is your problem? Is it that Christians should not be taught to have confidence in thier redemption or the experience of being reborn?

Do you think that that is unscriptural that they be taught the assurance of eternal salvation ?

Originally posted by jaywill
Rajk999,

I gather that you are a person of few words. I will wait for you to express something in a definitive way. If it calls for a comment, I'll have one.

But I don't want to drag information from you like pulling teeth.

What is your problem? Is it that Christians should not be taught to have confidence in thier redemption or the experience o ...[text shortened]... o you think that that is unscriptural that they be taught the assurance of eternal salvation ?

Jaywill you have a problem. You ramble on at length and go off the point, and you avoid answering the question and dealing directly with the issue at hand.

Please see the thread "My Briefest Responses". We started to discuss these same issues and you backed off and tried to change the subject.

Originally posted by snowinscotland
Could you explain what is the difference, between 'being saved' and 'being sure of salvation'?

Being sure of salvation is where you judge your own life and see if it is in line with the Word of God. You find out if you are saved by examining yourself and seeing if it is what the Lord wants. If your works are truly what you desire to do for the Lord then you can be sure you are saved, however, if you do the works to get salvation, they are in vain and you may not have salvation. Most do not do this and would rather assume they have salvation just because they do works.

Being saved is just that, you are saved form the wrath of God, from damnation. And it is not due to anything you do but rather what Christ has done. Your works are the result not the cause.

Originally posted by pritybetta
Being sure of salvation is where you judge your own life and see if it is in line with the Word of God. You find out if you are saved by examining yourself and seeing if it is what the Lord wants. If your works are truly what you desire to do for the Lord then you can be sure you are saved, however, if you do the works to get salvation, they are in vain a ...[text shortened]... due to anything you do but rather what Christ has done. Your works are the result not the cause.

So there is no difference, is there?

Once you are born again you
1. are saved
2. are sure of salvation
3. cannot loose your salvation.

Correct ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Jaywill you have a problem. You ramble on at length and go off the point, and you avoid answering the question and dealing directly with the issue at hand.

Please see the thread "My Briefest Responses". We started to discuss these same issues and you backed off and tried to change the subject.

What is the number of the post in which you say I backed down and changed the subject?

Originally posted by Rajk999
So there is no difference, is there?

Once you are born again you
1. are saved
2. are sure of salvation
3. cannot loose your salvation.

Correct ?

Rajk999,

Readers should understand that looking at this matter too simplistically can cause misunderstandings.


Man is a three parts - spirit and soul and body (1 Thess. 5:23)

God's salvation reaches all three parts.

Regeneration - is the salvation of the human spirit.
Transformation - is the salvation of the human soul.
Transfiguration - is the salvation of the human body.

Therefore, I have been saved.
I am in the process of being saved.
I am looking forward that I will be saved one day in the future.

My spirit has been born again - I have been regenerated.
My soul is undergoing transformation.
When Jesus comes back or I am resurrected my body will be transfigured.

These are not just words now. We must let them sink into our understanding of the New Testament.

Do not over simplify the word salvation so as to cause misunderstanding.

(Awwwww! Did you have to READ too much ?? I'm SO sorry !!)

Originally posted by jaywill
What is the number of the post in which you say I backed down and changed the subject?

I was trying to establish what are the basic requirements for salvation and they were ;

1. Belief & Faith in Jesus
2. Baptism or Being born again into Christ (dying as you put it) or 'putting on' Christ.
3. Works and acts of selfless love to demonstrate that faith.

You agreed all 3 were important.

Then you wanted to start talking about the Trinity (page 2). Then you said that salvation is only about Jesus, and nothing else, and that works was not necessary. You used the thief on the cross to show that works was not important.

So I think you people are confused. You say that works is an essential part of salvation but claim in the same breath that its not important.

Originally posted by jaywill
Rajk999,

Readers should understand that looking at this matter too simplistically can cause misunderstandings.


Man is a three parts - spirit and soul and body [b](1 Thess. 5:23)

God's salvation reaches all three parts.

Regeneration - is the salvation of the human spirit.
Transformation - is the salvation of the human soul.
Tr ...[text shortened]... cause misunderstanding.

(Awwwww! Did you have to READ too much ?? I'm SO sorry !!)[/b]

So a born again Christian cannot loose his salvation.
Correct?

Originally posted by jaywill
Rajk999,

Readers should understand that looking at this matter too simplistically can cause misunderstandings.


Man is a three parts - spirit and soul and body [b](1 Thess. 5:23)

God's salvation reaches all three parts.

Regeneration - is the salvation of the human spirit.
Transformation - is the salvation of the human soul.
Tr ...[text shortened]... cause misunderstanding.

(Awwwww! Did you have to READ too much ?? I'm SO sorry !!)[/b]

Did Christ say any of this?

Originally posted by Rajk999
So a born again Christian cannot loose his salvation.
Correct?

I would agree with that statement--but my brother Lutherans. some Baptists, I suspect Catholics, and I'm sure other denominations do NOT share the once-saved/always saved belief.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
I would agree with that statement--but my brother Lutherans. some Baptists, I suspect Catholics, and I'm sure other denominations do NOT share the once-saved/always saved belief.

So whats this expression "truly born again" used by PB.
Do you know?

Originally posted by Rajk999
So a born again Christian cannot loose his salvation.
Correct?

(Sorry for my sarcasm. It was not called for.)

Can a born person go back and be unborn?

A born again person cannot be unborn again.

He may backslide. He may not be on good speaking terms with his Father. But he can never undue the birth relationship.

Now you can go believe what you want to. If you ask me, that is what I see the Bible revealing.