02 Nov 11
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Originally posted by RJHindsI disagree. Clearly, if they follow Christ then they are Christians. There are a wide range of doctrines and traditions within Christianity. Good for you that you feel really strong commitment to the one you have chosen. But accusing other Christians of believing in Satanic doctrines - because their Christian belief system deviates from yours - reflects really poorly on you.
It does not matter if it is a circle, a triangle, or a square. What matters is
that it is the truth. They deny the Christian doctrines from the past that
came about a long time before the Jehovah's Witnesses came into existence.
That makes them anti-christian.
02 Nov 11
Originally posted by FMFRJH's circular reasoning aside, he is quite correct in saying that JW's are not Christian. They flatly deny core Christian beliefs. They deny the incarnation of the almighty in the personage of Jesus Christ, they are not monothiestic, and they do not beleive in salvation by grace. Forget RJH's reasons, these are the reasons they are not Christian (and more).
Well, whether you feel the need to exhibit basic common decency towards me or not is irrelevant. Your bluster does not disguise the fact that you are using a circular argument, i.e. you say they are not Christians because you say that Christians are not like they are.
02 Nov 11
Originally posted by DowardWell the fact that you don't agree with JW doctrine does not mean they are not Christians. You are using a circular argument. The fact you are trying to doll it up with reference to your personal points of disagreement means little or nothing. Do they follow Christ? Yes. Do all Christians do so in accordance with the same doctrines? No. Are you using the word "core" subjectively? Yes.
RJH's circular reasoning aside, he is quite correct in saying that JW's are not Christian. They flatly deny core Christian beliefs. They deny the incarnation of the almighty in the personage of Jesus Christ, they are not monothiestic, and they do not beleive in salvation by grace. Forget RJH's reasons, these are the reasons they are not Christian (and more).
02 Nov 11
Originally posted by DowardWe deny these core beliefs that most Christian religions believe because they are man made doctrines and are not taught in the Bible. A very simple truthful point.
RJH's circular reasoning aside, he is quite correct in saying that JW's are not Christian. They flatly deny core Christian beliefs. They deny the incarnation of the almighty in the personage of Jesus Christ, they are not monothiestic, and they do not beleive in salvation by grace. Forget RJH's reasons, these are the reasons they are not Christian (and more).
02 Nov 11
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFWords so succinctly expressed and with a clarity which captures the very essence of thought I have yet to come across in RHP forums as this, recd.
Well the fact that you don't agree with JW doctrine does not mean they are not Christians. You are using a circular argument. The fact you are trying to doll it up with reference to your personal points of disagreement means little or nothing. Do they follow Christ? Yes. Do all Christians do so in accordance with the same doctrines? No. Are you using the word "core" subjectively? Yes.
02 Nov 11
Originally posted by FMFThe difference is that you believe they are Christian, but I don't for
I disagree. Clearly, if they follow Christ then they are Christians. There are a wide range of doctrines and traditions within Christianity. Good for you that you feel really strong commitment to the one you have chosen. But accusing other Christians of believing in Satanic doctrines - because their Christian belief system deviates from yours - reflects really poorly on you.
the reasons I have stated.
02 Nov 11
Originally posted by FMFYou apparently do not know that the Jehovah's Witnesses are the master
Well the fact that you don't agree with JW doctrine does not mean they are not Christians. You are using a circular argument. The fact you are trying to doll it up with reference to your personal points of disagreement means little or nothing. Do they follow Christ? Yes. Do all Christians do so in accordance with the same doctrines? No. Are you using the word "core" subjectively? Yes.
of the circular agruments.
02 Nov 11
Originally posted by RJHindsAll religionists are "masters of circular arguments". The particular one that you are using does not and cannot turn Christians into 'non-Christians'.
You apparently do not know that the Jehovah's Witnesses are the master
of the circular agruments.
02 Nov 11
Originally posted by FMFIt is most certainly not a circular argument, I plainly stated why they are not Christians. Any deviation from those doctrines means one is NOT a Christian. The doctrines I cited are accepted in all denominations of Christianity as core essential beliefs to be considered Christian...EXCEPT for the JW's.
Well the fact that you don't agree with JW doctrine does not mean they are not Christians. You are using a circular argument. The fact you are trying to doll it up with reference to your personal points of disagreement means little or nothing. Do they follow Christ? Yes. Do all Christians do so in accordance with the same doctrines? No. Are you using the word "core" subjectively? Yes.
That being said, I admire there non-violence stand
02 Nov 11
Originally posted by DowardYour argument could be cited in a textbook on logical fallacies as an example of circular argument. You are basically saying that they are not Christians because you don't consider them to be Christians and that the fact that you don't consider them to be Christians proves your point that they are not Christians.
It is most certainly not a circular argument, I plainly stated why they are not Christians. Any deviation from those doctrines means one is NOT a Christian. The doctrines I cited are accepted in all denominations of Christianity as core essential beliefs to be considered Christian...EXCEPT for the JW's.
02 Nov 11
Originally posted by DowardI wonder if Christ gets to decide who is Christian and who is not?
It is most certainly not a circular argument, I plainly stated why they are not Christians. Any deviation from those doctrines means one is NOT a Christian. The doctrines I cited are accepted in all denominations of Christianity as core essential beliefs to be considered Christian...EXCEPT for the JW's.
That being said, I admire there non-violence stand
Maybe you should relinquish some of your apparent authority and let Christ decide who are the Christians. I bet he will use His own criteria and not what popular contemporary Christianity preaches?
And his own criteria for being a Christian must be what the apostles of the first Christian church preached, becuase he sent those apostles to preach to the Gentiles.
And as far as I can recall Paul, Peter and other apostles taught the following :
- believe in Christ who is the Son of God, who came to die for our sins.
- repent and be baptised
- live a God-fearing life
Thats the bare minimum for being a Christian, and I can support that with crystal clear passages from Paul and others.
I doubt you can support your stance with crystal clear verses from Paul and the other apostles.
03 Nov 11
Originally posted by RJHindsWhile this man probably did not want any glory or recognition for his deeds this is just plain bad ass!!!! Also what Christ would do!!!
Unlike the Jehovah's Witnesses who refuse to serve in the military Desmond
Doss, a seventh Day Adventist, served as a conscientious objecter in the U.S.
Army assigned to the Medical Detachment, 307th Infantry, 77th Infantry Division.
He was the first conscientious objector to receive the Medal of Honor.
After a heavy concentration of artillery, morta ...[text shortened]... allantry far above and beyond the call of duty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss
Manny