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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    16 Feb '18 19:27
    Was the death of Jesus on the cross merely a typical martyrdom for a great cause of something more?

    Shall compare His execution to be exactly as the death of Mahatma Ghandi, Abraham Lincoln, John F. Kennedy, or Martin Luther King?

    I say that the Christian must say that His death was much more than a typical heroic martyrdom for a good cause.
  2. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    16 Feb '18 19:29
    I must make a correction. Jesus' death was a martyrdom. I would be wrong to say that it was not.

    But it accomplished more than being just an inspiring example. It accomplished efficacious and of eternal significance.

    Some readers will not be convinced.
    Somer readers, I hope, will be encouraged in their understanding and faith.
  3. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    16 Feb '18 19:32
    Question for the discussion:

    With the biblical data of Christ's going to His cross, how would you compare His behavior with that of other people who have been martyred ?

    Did He show as much courage or less in your view?
  4. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    16 Feb '18 19:42
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Was the death of Jesus on the cross merely a typical martyrdom for a great cause of something more?

    Shall compare His execution to be exactly as the death of Mahatma Ghandi, Abraham Lincoln, John F. Kennedy, or Martin Luther King?

    I say that the Christian must say that His death was much more than a typical heroic martyrdom for a good cause.
    His Resurrection, the result of which was witnessed by numerous people and which transformed the Apostles from cowering in fear of the Pharisees to boldly preaching Jesus Christ as the Son of God, is evidence (in my opinion proof) that His death represented much more than martyrdom.
  5. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    16 Feb '18 19:54
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    His Resurrection, the result of which was witnessed by numerous people and which transformed the Apostles from cowering in fear of the Pharisees to boldly preaching Jesus Christ as the Son of God, is evidence (in my opinion proof) that His death represented much more than martyrdom.
    That is exactly true.

    But in this thread I would like to focus on His DEATH for a moment. Think of Jesus going to His death, especially in the Garden of Gethsemane.

    Compared to others who went to death praising and singing, how did Jesus compare ?

    Remember, three times or so He asked God to remove the cup from Him. And He even had to be strengthened by an angel.

    I am working up to the point that He knew something more than just torture and execution was awaiting Him.
  6. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    16 Feb '18 22:12
    Originally posted by @sonship
    That is exactly true.

    But in this thread I would like to focus on His DEATH for a moment. Think of Jesus going to His death, especially in the Garden of Gethsemane.

    Compared to others who went to death praising and singing, how did Jesus compare ?

    Remember, three times or so He asked God to remove the cup from Him. And He even had to be strengthen ...[text shortened]... ng up to the point that He knew something more than just torture and execution was awaiting Him.
    Well He certainly wasn’t praising and singing (as an aside, I love the passage in Acts where Paul and Silas did that in prison.)

    Neither, though, do I think He was attempting to avoid it; though He asked for the cup to be removed, He added, “Not my will, but Thy will be done.”

    I remember He was silent before His accusers, which I believed fulfilled at least one Old Testament prophecy.

    And on the cross, He asked God the Father to forgive His enemies because they didn’t know what they were doing.

    Though fully God and fully man, Jesus knew where He came from and where He was going.
  7. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    16 Feb '18 22:40 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    Well He certainly wasn’t praising and singing (as an aside, I love the passage in Acts where Paul and Silas did that in prison.)


    He knew that His death was more than a mere martyrdom. He would be judged for the sins of the whole world. He knew He would be lifted up as Satan, as being the sole bearer of all the sins under God's wrath.

    "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up ..." (John 1:14a)


    If the Apostle Paul knew that He became sin for us how could the Son of God not know that that was about to happen to Him under divine wrath.

    " Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor. 5:21)


    This is beyond our full comprehension.
    The Bronze Serpent signifies Satan under Judgement.


    Neither, though, do I think He was attempting to avoid it; though He asked for the cup to be removed, He added, “Not my will, but Thy will be done.”


    You are right.

    For the first three hours on the cross it was man's persecution. During the subsequent three hours the things that happened were not under the control of man -
    the earthquake, the darkness over creation, the riping of the temple veil from top down to the bottom.

    These are the things which happened during the second three hours of His six hours of hanging on the cross. They signify the things come upon Him supernaturally from the wrath of God's judgment.

    This must have been the cup which He dreaded.
    And it is at this stage He cried out that God had forsaken Him.

    "Now from the sixth hour darkness fell over the land until the ninth hour.

    And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani! that is,

    My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me." (Matthew 27: 45,46)


    This was beyond martyrdom.
    This was the cup of the wrath of God which He had to drink on our behalf.


    I remember He was silent before His accusers, which I believed fulfilled at least one Old Testament prophecy.


    Yes, All true.
    And GOD ... GOD caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him. And it please GOD to smite Him. This was beyond the smiting torture of mere men. This was the cup He drank of divine wrath poured out upon Him

    (Isaiah 53:4-10) including the words proving that God crushed Him.

    "Jehovah was pleased to crush Him, to afflict Him with grief when He makes Himself an offering for sin." (v.10)



    And on the cross, He asked God the Father to forgive His enemies because they didn’t know what they were doing.

    Though fully God and fully man, Jesus knew where He came from and where He was going.


    This petitioning of His Father was during the first three hourse. In answer to that eternal petition, that mighty universal prayer of efficacy God answered by making Him, the executed One, the object of His wrath.

    He was made sin for us during that second phase.
    He died in the form of the judged Satan, the bronze serpent, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
  8. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    16 Feb '18 22:49
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Well He certainly wasn’t praising and singing (as an aside, I love the passage in Acts where Paul and Silas did that in prison.)


    He knew that His death was more than a mere martyrdom. He would be judged for the sins of the whole world. He knew He would be lifted up as Satan, as being the sole bearer of all the sins under God's wrath.
    ...[text shortened]... m of the judged Satan, the bronze serpent, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
    Very interesting.

    I never understood the meaning behind Christ’s reference to Moses lifting up the serpent in the wilderness. Appreciate your perspective and, on a broader note, your posts in general. I haven’t read all of your posts (just the ones on topics that interest me) but appreciate the time and knowledge required to post them.
  9. 17 Feb '18 05:04
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Question for the discussion:

    With the biblical data of Christ's going to His cross, how would you compare His behavior with that of other people who have been martyred ?

    Did He show as much courage or less in your view?
    Three consecutive posts in your own thread within 5 minutes. If you are correcting your OP why not just edit it?
  10. 17 Feb '18 05:05
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Was the death of Jesus on the cross merely a typical martyrdom for a great cause of something more?

    Shall compare His execution to be exactly as the death of Mahatma Ghandi, Abraham Lincoln, John F. Kennedy, or Martin Luther King?

    I say that the Christian must say that His death was much more than a typical heroic martyrdom for a good cause.
    JFK was a martyr?
  11. 17 Feb '18 05:07
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Somer readers, I hope, will be encouraged in their understanding and faith.
    You think there are Christians here in this forum who will be encouraged in their faith by your declaration of Jesus martyrdom?
  12. 17 Feb '18 05:09
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Question for the discussion:

    With the biblical data of Christ's going to His cross, how would you compare His behavior with that of other people who have been martyred ?

    Did He show as much courage or less in your view?
    Are you seriously comparing the account of the execution of Jesus with the assassinations of Abraham Lincoln, John F. Kennedy, and Martin Luther King?
  13. 17 Feb '18 05:11 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    I never understood the meaning behind Christ’s reference to Moses lifting up the serpent in the wilderness.
    And yet a few days ago you were claiming to be an “authority on Christianity”.

    There have been Christian hymns written about this symbolism, books written, thousands of sermons, and it’s easily searchable on the internet.
  14. 17 Feb '18 05:16 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    His Resurrection, the result of which was witnessed by numerous people and which transformed the Apostles from cowering in fear of the Pharisees to boldly preaching Jesus Christ as the Son of God, is evidence (in my opinion proof) that His death represented much more than martyrdom.
    Again, as an “authority on Christianity” I thought you would be aware that it was not the death, nor the resurrection, nor the ascension which transformed the disciples from followers into the dynamic apostles they became, it was the events at Pentecost as described in the book of Acts.
  15. 17 Feb '18 05:20 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sonship
    That is exactly true.

    But in this thread I would like to focus on His DEATH for a moment. Think of Jesus going to His death, especially in the Garden of Gethsemane.

    Compared to others who went to death praising and singing, how did Jesus compare ?

    Remember, three times or so He asked God to remove the cup from Him. And He even had to be strengthen ...[text shortened]... ng up to the point that He knew something more than just torture and execution was awaiting Him.
    One aspect of Jesus obedience unto death was that it was considered a work that was finished at Calvary. His own faith was tested to the extreme but he pressed on to complete his work. Faith and works of perfect harmony.

    “It is finished” he was speaking of his work, not his life.

    Faith, obedience, work.