Jesus' Death vs Martyrdom

Originally posted by @sonship
Stop trying to solicit everybody ELSE into your problems.

Sonship you get complaints from various posters about your tedious monologues. That post of yours which I was replying to sums up your disrespect for the members of this forum and your intent spam dump every thread you start whether or not you get interest.

Originally posted by @sonship
Wonderful.

Yes Christ is the mingling of God and man.
And it is mysterious.

Christ bore the judgment of God for sin. But the substitution of His redemption is for the [b]"many" who believe in Him.

Universalism says ALL will be saved for He died for all.
This is not quite right.
Yes He died for all.
But He died for the sins of "many". ...[text shortened]... b]"many"[/b] who believe in Him receive the benefit.

I am digressing a little though.[/b]

Yes, this mingling of God and man is a common occurrence in many ancient mythologies where the Gods bred with mortal beings.

Hercules, for example, was a mingling of the divine and human.

Originally posted by @sonship
Wonderful.

Yes Christ is the mingling of God and man.
And it is mysterious.

Christ bore the judgment of God for sin. But the substitution of His redemption is for the [b]"many" who believe in Him.

Universalism says ALL will be saved for He died for all.
This is not quite right.
Yes He died for all.
But He died for the sins of "many". ...[text shortened]... b]"many"[/b] who believe in Him receive the benefit.

I am digressing a little though.[/b]

In my view, Jesus had to become fully man (while remaining fully God) in order to experience the temptations of man, not give in to them and therefore lead a perfect life and fulfill the law, and He also had to become fully man (while remaining fully God) to taste death for every man.

Biblical verses back up both points but I don’t want the thread to get sidetracked so I’ll just offer one verse on the first point:

“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.“

(Hebrews 4:14-16)

Originally posted by @romans1009

In my view, Jesus had to become fully man (while remaining fully God) in order to experience the temptations of man, not give in to them and therefore lead a perfect life and fulfill the law, and He also had to become fully man (while remaining fully God) to taste death for every man.

Most English translations say "everyone".

Amen to that. The Recovery Version translates it that He tasted death on behalf of "everything".

I think they followed J.N. Darby's translation of Hebrews 2:11.

Darby Bible Translation
but we see Jesus, who [was] made some little inferior to angels on account of the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; so that by the grace of God he should taste death for every thing.

Somewhat similar to -

Douay-Rheims Bible
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour: that, through the grace of God, he might taste death for all.

Biblical verses back up both points but I don’t want the thread to get sidetracked so I’ll just offer one verse on the first point:

“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

AMEN to this glorious truth.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.“

(Hebrews 4:14-16)

We can come boldly to the throne of grace to receive timely help.

Thankyou.

Originally posted by @romans1009
In my view, Jesus had to become fully man (while remaining fully God) in order to experience the temptations of man, not give in to them and therefore lead a perfect life and fulfill the law, and He also had to become fully man (while remaining fully God) to taste death for every man.

Biblical verses back up both points but I don’t want the thread to ...[text shortened]... f grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.“

(Hebrews 4:14-16)

The passage stated clearly that Jesus is the SON OF GOD.

You say it says Jesus was FULLY GOD.

Oh .. of course... makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by @rajk999
The passage stated clearly that Jesus is the SON OF GOD.

You say it says Jesus was FULLY GOD.

Oh .. of course... makes perfect sense.

You don’t understand the concept of the Trinity, how God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son and the Holy Spirit are all God and co-equal?

While Jesus Christ was on earth for His ministry and to sacrifice Himself for our sins, He was lower than God the Father (as Paul says in Hebrews, He was “a little lower than the angels&rdquo😉 because He was in the flesh, which is why He cried out to God the Father. But Jesus was still God at that time; He was both God and man.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Yes, this mingling of God and man is a common occurrence in many ancient mythologies where the Gods bred with mortal beings.

Hercules, for example, was a mingling of the divine and human.

Yes, this mingling of God and man is a common occurrence in many ancient mythologies where the Gods bred with mortal beings.

Hercules, for example, was a mingling of the divine and human.

Do I have to now go off and read all about Hercules ?

So being confronted with the Gospel of Jesus Christ you carefully compared the New Testament to the stories of Hercules and decided that roughly you were hearing the SAME message in both ?

Then we can go on to Spider Man, Superman, Batman, Green hornet, the Hulk, etc. etc. ... all roughly the same as the Jesus of Nazareth in the Gospels ?

Oh Ghost-of-a-Duke, since you are familiar with Greek pantheon educate me now.

Well, Hercules's father Zeus - where did Zeus come from ?

I read that Zeus was preceded by Chaos or Uranus.

So the cosmic buck stops with Chaos or Uranus, Ghost?
First there was Chaos or Uranus and that or he gave birth to the supreme god who was the daddy of Hercules ?

Let's pretend Christ and Hercules are about the same ?

Originally posted by @sonship

Do I have to now go off and read all about Hercules?

It wouldn't hurt to increase your knowledge of other mythologies and stop the recurrent misnomer that the mingling of the divine and humanity is somehow unique to Christianity.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
It wouldn't hurt to increase your knowledge of other mythologies and stop the recurrent misnomer that the mingling of the divine and humanity is somehow unique to Christianity.

Do you know what the purpose was behind mingling of the divine and humanity in Greek mythology? Did it have a purpose?

Originally posted by @sonship
Oh Ghost-of-a-Duke, since you are familiar with Greek pantheon educate me now.

Well, Hercules's father Zeus - where did Zeus come from ?

I read that Zeus was preceded by Chaos or Uranus.

Ah, you believe Hercules is the sole example of this divine minging with humanity?

Here's a page from a fun site to give you a basic update on Norse Demigods and Hindu Demigods, Greek Demigods and Roman Demigods.

'Demigods, or half-bloods, are a race of beings who are half-mortal, half-god. They possess mortal souls and are vulnerable to old age and death; however, their godly blood endows them with special abilities that allow them to achieve feats usually not possible by humans.'

http://riordan.wikia.com/wiki/Demigod

Of course, if you have genuine interest (and confidence in your own narrative) there are more serious sites out there that explain these ancient mythologies, some predating the Bible.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
It wouldn't hurt to increase your knowledge of other mythologies and stop the recurrent misnomer that the mingling of the divine and humanity is somehow unique to Christianity.

The increase of knowledge is good.
Knowing God intimately, personally is better.

I got to know in my life's journey that there is -
1.) Knowing all about religion/s
2.) Knowing God

Now I know a bit about Greek mythology.
And deities and demigods, of course are not new in the Gospels.

All of the demigods of ancient mythologies acted usually like sinful men and women.

There is a reason why Western civilization divides time up to Before Christ and in the Year of our Lord. After He came and lived things could never be the same.

The arrival of Hercules (with its far weaker historicity) and that of say, Sinbad, Robin Hood, or even Andrea the Giant or Houdini are somewhat similar. Curiosities mainly for good tales.

You don't spend much time going around trying to remove any importance to you of the words of Hercules. I think the words of Jesus Christ get you thinking hard on some nights.

Am I right ? Be honest.

Originally posted by @sonship
The increase of knowledge is good.
Knowing God intimately, personally is better.

I got to know in my life's journey that there is -
1.) Knowing all about religion/s
2.) Knowing God

Now I know a bit about Greek mythology.
And deities and demigods, of course are not new in the Gospels.

All of the demigods of ancient mythologies acted usually ...[text shortened]... ink the words of Jesus Christ get you thinking hard on some nights.

Am I right ? Be honest.

Well, you are wrong that Robin Hood was a demigod. 😕

(And you're statement that 'All of the demigods of ancient mythologies acted usually like sinful men and women' just highlights that your knowledge in this area is limited).

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Well, you are wrong that Robin Hood was a demigod. 😕

(And you're statement that 'All of the demigods of ancient mythologies acted usually like sinful men and women' just highlights that your knowledge in this area is limited).

Wrong?
Thankyou for the education. Robin Hood a demigod.
Fine.

I did have a mix of characters - historical and otherwise.

But the point remains that Jesus occupies a class of human beings of which there seems to be only one member.

Now, I have to go for the rest of the morning. But you could tell me where you find Hercules saying such things as :


1.) He and God would come to live in His lovers
2.) He will raise up every dead person on some future date.
3.) No one can convict Him of sinning.
4.) Saying He IS ... 'the resurrection and the life".
5.) Saying He IS ... "the light of the world".
6.) Saying He to drink His blood and eat His flesh for divine life.
7.) Saying before Abraham was in existence, He is the "I AM".
8.) Saying the heaven and earth will pass away but the words He speaks will never pass away. Ie. His words will outlast the physical universe itself.

Show me parallel sayings from the mouth of Hercules.