Originally posted by Ice Cold These are some emails my Mom and I exchanged. She posed a good question, and I would be interested in hearing other peoples input on this. Easter is coming soon. Thanks in advance.
I have wanted to ask you for sometime now and I always forget.
Why did Jesus descend into hell for 3 days and what did He do there???????
Love you Mom
I am not sure if ...[text shortened]... on there was and He went to hell to reclaim those people who may have followed Him Love mom
where did u heard about jesus he went to hell? who are they?
Originally posted by scottishinnz How can any manifestation of God not have complete control of everything at all times, if he's omnipotent?
What took an omnipotent being 3 days to do it anyway?
According to a poster on this site a day for God is 1000 years for us, so it actually took him 3000 years! He must be still down there! Maybe its a chess tournament involving all of hells citizens verses Jesus. Those that win get to heaven.
Originally posted by twhitehead According to a poster on this site a day for God is 1000 years for us, so it actually took him 3000 years! He must be still down there! Maybe its a chess tournament involving all of hells citizens verses Jesus. Those that win get to heaven.
Which'd be none, cos he's bound to be the ultimate player, right?
Originally posted by scottishinnz Which'd be none, cos he's bound to be the ultimate player, right?
I am sure the Christians will be able to come up with some obfusticating story that explains how you should still try to win at chess even though he is the perfect player. Maybe he forgives the best players or those that resign really early on because of their faith that he will win.
After all they claim to have explained the paradox of God creating man in such a way that it is impossible not to sin and yet the sin is still not Gods fault.
Must be rather hard to concentrate on the game though while you are being burnt and tortured etc.
Originally posted by scottishinnz Which'd be none, cos he's bound to be the ultimate player, right?
Only those who cheat have a chance of winning, which is why those who win stay in hell. (Of course Jesus knows they are cheating, but he lets them continue to do so because he doesn't want to limit their free will. But of course they will be faced with the consequences afterwards.)
Originally posted by Ice Cold These are some emails my Mom and I exchanged. She posed a good question, and I would be interested in hearing other peoples input on this. Easter is coming soon. Thanks in advance.
I have wanted to ask you for sometime now and I always forget.
Why did Jesus descend into hell for 3 days and what did He do there???????
Love you Mom
I am not sure if ...[text shortened]... on there was and He went to hell to reclaim those people who may have followed Him Love mom
I think the "Hell" you're thinking of was Earth wasn't it.
I never heard anything about Jesus decending into Hell in the Bible .. if you have it, quote it.
I remember Jesus being tempted by the devil, but that was in a desert I think .. 40 days?
I can see the likeness between being born as a mortal man on Earth .. and Hell though. Heaven too.
It changes, moment to moment.
Originally posted by Crita Some people assume that God operates in time like we do. But it's not like that. He can see our entire life like a map, as if it has already happened, but still is happening and is yet to happen (if you know what I mean).
And our sins are only forgiven when we ask God for forgiveness.
But God already has it written on his 'map' whether or not he has forgiven you?
But of course you only need forgiveness because you have no choice but to offend God. Even if I believed in God I would refuse to ask for forgiveness for something my ancestors did or something I was forced into doing by my very nature.
Originally posted by jammer I think the "Hell" you're thinking of was Earth wasn't it.
I never heard anything about Jesus decending into Hell in the Bible .. if you have it, quote it.
I remember Jesus being tempted by the devil, but that was in a desert I think .. 40 days?
I can see the likeness between being born as a mortal man on Earth .. and Hell though. Heaven too.
It changes, moment to moment.
But without him going to hell the story just becomes even more meaningless than it already is. Surely if Jesus went to heaven then the whole sacrifice thing becomes meaningless. I thought the idea was that God made a sacrifice by allowing Jesus to die for three days. If he just took a quick three day holiday in heaven then it is hardly sacrifice. Or did he just cease to exist for three days?
Originally posted by jammer I think the "Hell" you're thinking of was Earth wasn't it.
I never heard anything about Jesus decending into Hell in the Bible .. if you have it, quote it.
I remember Jesus being tempted by the devil, but that was in a desert I think .. 40 days?
I can see the likeness between being born as a mortal man on Earth .. and Hell though. Heaven too.
It changes, moment to moment.
The only reference I can find to it is in The Apostle's Creed. Which is not Biblical. Some versions of the Creed have no mention of a decent into Hell, while some do. 😕
Here is some fairly intersting reading.
http://www.sundoulos.com/biblical.aspx?in=1
Originally posted by scottishinnz How can any manifestation of God not have complete control of everything at all times, if he's omnipotent?
What took an omnipotent being 3 days to do it anyway?
How can any manifestation of God not have complete control of everything at all times, if he's omnipotent? SCOTTY
Simple , by choosing to let go of control. We still say the US is the dominant world superpower even though it uses a fraction of it's superpower and allows certain areas of the world to not be completely controlled by it. Is the US not the world's superpower then? The logic you use here would suggest that the US can only be a world superpower if it unleashes the full force of it's military might.
Originally posted by knightmeister How can any manifestation of God not have complete control of everything at all times, if he's omnipotent? SCOTTY
Simple , by choosing to let go of control. We still say the US is the dominant world superpower even though it uses a fraction of it's superpower and allows certain areas of the world to not be completely controlled by it. Is the US not ...[text shortened]... the US can only be a world superpower if it unleashes the full force of it's military might.
As powerful as the US is, it is still not omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without having your finger on the pulse so to speak, which is where omnipresence comes in. And, well, if God is everywhere with ultimate power at all times, he's either an outright lie at best or a malevolent voyeur at worst.
Originally posted by twhitehead But God already has it written on his 'map' whether or not he has forgiven you?
But of course you only need forgiveness because you have no choice but to offend God. Even if I believed in God I would refuse to ask for forgiveness for something my ancestors did or something I was forced into doing by my very nature.
Exactly God already has it written on His map because you have already made that choice! It took me a while to get my head around, but it works.
Let's stick with God viewing our life like a map. He can see the start, the finish and all the choices you've made in the middle. Now, we can't see any further than the present (and our view of the past is somewhat skewed anyway) so we don't know what is going to happen in the rest of our lives, but God's already there and has seen all the choices we will make. Now, just because He can see the choices before we make them doesn't mean that He is responsible for them. He's just got really good vision. 😉
Does that make sense? I always struggle to convey these things in words.
Originally posted by Crita Exactly God already has it written on His map because you have already made that choice! It took me a while to get my head around, but it works.
Let's stick with God viewing our life like a map. He can see the start, the finish and all the choices you've made in the middle. Now, we can't see any further than the present (and our view of the past is somewhat ...[text shortened]... od vision. 😉
Does that make sense? I always struggle to convey these things in words.
No. It doesn't make sense, at least free will doesn't if that's the way you view things. God created the universe and everything in it with perfect knowledge of all the choices we'd make, in advance. He created the universe in just a way that he knew he'd have to send me to hell. This is logically inconsistent with a benevolent God.
Jesus' decent into Hell
15 Feb '07 06:13
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