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Originally posted by Bosse de NageI don't know much about Rumi,
I'm not really worthy to wear that hat.
What do you think of Rumi and the Sufis?
For Sufis, I will talk about Sufi Muslims,
In general Sufis are Muslims who adopted a specific way of life. But some of them adopted some believes that don't agree with Islamic believe, I don't know much about these difference but the majority of them are related to the attributes of GOD and some worship practices that was not proposed by the prophets.
Sufi was not part of my interest to read about so I can't help in that part more than that 🙂
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI was talking about what I can see from Sufis Muslims, although I know Sufis extend outside Islam, so I can't really comment in that.
Sufis believe that all religions are (n)one at heart. (A simplification but it'll do). Would you tolerate them living in your society?
Would you tolerate them living in your society?
They actually do. There are many Sufis in Egypt.
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Originally posted by Bosse de NageI'm one of them, or to be accurate , try to be.
OK.
How do you feel about Salafi?
The word Salafi , means the one who follow the the prophet and his companions no more. And the word 'Salaf' refers to Muslims at the first century (or may be the second too) after the prophet.
So given that definition every Muslim should be Salafi by default. The problem is that at the beginning of the 20th century the relation between Muslims and Islam became very week to the level that many of the basic concepts were lost, so when Scolars tried to return people to Islam they appeared as if they are new and weird. As if they are coming with a new religion.
The same goes for Whabism , Mohammed Abd Al Wahab , the claimed founder of this movement was trying to return to Islam no more, he was trying to be Salafi, but as people at this time forgot much about Islam he appeared like adopting a new religion.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI agree with you in part.
I find Salafi Muslims to be quite scary. The jihadis in the Sudan call themselves Salafis. But they are killers.
In the 90th , many groups that called itself to be Salafi, made many Terrorism in Egypt. The bombed many places, killing many Muslims in Cairo and other cities. At that time the knowledge was not as it is today. People in Egypt at that time didn't understand what is it to be Salafi, it really means to be Muslim, so taking these groups as an example it was really scary. I myself used to be scared.
But when I read and read more I understood the difference. Those groups were manipulated and brainwashed to do these acts. They were not educated, and they were promised money and more.
But that is not what is it about, now in Egypt it is more clearer, and these groups are no more existing. People now understand the difference and now they are moving towards the truth.
Same goes for many groups that uses Islam for their own purposes.
In general I don't like to use these terms, but we are forced to use it to make things clearer. I prefer to call myself a Muslim.
The jihadis in the Sudan call themselves Salafis. But they are killers.
You said , they call themselves, but not necessary they are.
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Any Muslim in these days is facing a lot of contradicting conditions and opinions and all are using the religion. Besides of course the big propaganda against Islam. Without education it becomes worse and that the main problem, ignorance.
Originally posted by ahosyneyI'm glad, and you're right, I haven't heard any bad news of that sort from Egypt since the last bus massacre.
But that is not what is it about, now in Egypt it is more clearer, and these groups are no more existing. People now understand the difference and now they are moving towards the truth.
All anybody asks for is tolerance.
Originally posted by chappy1You are aware that to vilify every Muslim based on the actions of the extreme is like saying all Catholics are evil nihilists based on Timothy McVeigh's Oklahoma City bombings (which, I might add, showed American anti-Muslim racism at its worst).
Isn't Surah 9 one of the last chapters in the Quran? And it's my understanding that it is the most violent Surah by far. In the minds of a lot of extreme Muslim organizations this is what they use to justify murder of the infidel and suicide bombings and terrorist actions, right? They believe that Surah 9 takes precedence over all of the peaceful things mentioned about the infidel earlier in the book, right?
Originally posted by ahosyneyYou don't see which questions you didn't answer! No problem, I come again.
[b]Enjoy your religionism!
I do
The questions I posed to you long ago are all remain unanswered. You may find them all at this site, at the thread "Taliban sinks to new low" (http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?subject=Taliban_sinks_to_new_low%2C_cruelty_on_new_level.&threadid=103580
I don't see which questions I didn't answer. ...[text shortened]... a porn movie before. If that the humanity you are defending, then yes I'm attacking it.[/b]
My first question was:
-- "What do you think of the Nigerian women and girls that still end up stoned to death by Muslims?"
Your answer at that thread shows clearly that you are a religionist who enjoys seeing people dying for nothing. Your religionism is just your excuse to promote these monstrosities and walk away.
I also asked you:
-- "Do you agree with the reaction of the Muslims against Denmark everywhere after the incident of Feb. 2006 regarding the drawing cartoons published by Jyllands-Posten?"
You never replied although I offered you the pieces of information you asked me and although I pushed you several times regarding this issue.
My third question was:
-- "What do you think about the circumstances under which Van Gogh was murdered in Amsterdamn?"
You never replied although I offered you the pieces of information you asked me and alhough I pushed you several times regarding this issue too.
Therefore I assume that your beliefs are a straight attack to the humanity. I oppose this attitude of yours and I oppose your preaching, for I oppose religionism regardless its origin. Feel free to keep up playing it cool preaching your "holy scriptures" but expect not to be taken seriously.
Originally posted by ahosyneyThank you for the explanation, I think I understand you now.
Ok I will make it clear:
Many believe that GOD first sent a religion called Judaism then followed by Christianity and then Islam.
What Islam say it was only one religion Islam, and those two other religions are not from GOD. Their origin was the same but Allah will not accept them.
Originally posted by ahosyneyEdit:
[b]Enjoy your religionism!
I do
The questions I posed to you long ago are all remain unanswered. You may find them all at this site, at the thread "Taliban sinks to new low" (http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?subject=Taliban_sinks_to_new_low%2C_cruelty_on_new_level.&threadid=103580
I don't see which questions I didn't answer. ...[text shortened]... a porn movie before. If that the humanity you are defending, then yes I'm attacking it.[/b]
"what humanity? How many Muslims did you see in a porn movie before. If that the humanity you are defendinf then yes I am attacking it"
Well I have see not Muslims participating in porn movies, and not only because I see not porn movies.
It seems to me that there are not Muslim porn actors because the fanatics of your lot are killing them. In case to help you out, I here post as is a comment by the Israeli TV Channel 1 (Dec. 28, 2002):
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Israeli TV Channel 1 reports that a mob of angry Arab Muslim men lynched an Israeli Arab woman who had taken a part in a porno movie.
Amal Kashua, an Israeli Arab/Muslim mother of 8, took part in a porno movie with her partner, Yusuf. Last week, a mob of angry out-of-control Israeli Arab Muslims from the village of Tira attacked her with clubs and rocks. Amal is in an Israeli hospital, in serious condition.
The report starts with an Arab Israeli woman covered in a burka. She categorically says that “any woman who takes part in something like this [a porno movie] should be judged and condemned to death”.
Fatma Kashua, Amal’s mother, has published an article, declaring that her daughter is dead in her eyes. Amal’s family, including her kids, also completely reject her and do not wish to ever meet her again. Amal is not only beat up but is also very much alone.
The Imam of the Arab Muslim city of Tira, Hazi El-Hamdan, is interviewed and declares that “this is a direct attack on Islam coming through atrocities from the West”, and “Muslims have the right to defend themselves – she should be killed”.
A few Israeli Arab Muslim men were arrested after the lynch. Israeli TV interviewed two thugs who categorically said they “don’t need the law from the Knesset [Israel’s parliament]”. What they need is “Islamic law, where we could stone this woman to death, to maintain Islamic values”. This is the Islamic version of women rights -Amal has the right to be stoned to death, like any other Muslim woman.
What is distressing is the fact that the whole Arab/Muslim village was unanimous in not only condemning Amal Kashua for her acts, but they all wish to use violence and murder her. They all think that Islamic law is above Israel’s laws and that they are allowed take the law into their own hands.
The report ends with Amal’s mother saying that she would never accept her daughter back, even if Amal apologized.
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What is your opinion, ahosyney? Is this all a propaganda against Islam? Is it a real incident? Do you agree with this reaction of those specific Muslims?