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Originally posted by ahosyneyIt was an act of terror. I doubt that even the Israelis would deny it. However they would deny being terrorists because that words meaning has been deliberately misused by the US (and her allies).
According to that definition then what Isreal did in Gaza is an act of terrorism. It is clear it was a message to the people of Gaza:
"Stop supporting Hamas or you will die"
It must be noted that Hama's is also committing acts of terror by firing rockets into Israel - with the main purpose being to make Israeli's afraid of getting hit by one.
The sad thing about terrorism is that it almost always seems to have the opposite effect from what was intended by the terrorist. Many terrorists want to be noticed and want either their opponents to be so scared that they will cease and desist or they want their opponents to wake up and take note of the issues that the terrorists have. However the reaction tends to be something quite different and not beneficial to the terrorists.
It must also be noted that those supporting terrorism financially usually have very different motives. It is my belief that if we took more time to name and shame the financial supporters of terrorism (that includes Israels supporters) and their motives then it would have a dramatic impact in reducing terrorist attacks world wide. I find however that reporters tend to shy away from that and prefer to focus on each individual atrocity and the immediate culprit. I guess that thats what sells - and there is less risk of law suits.
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Originally posted by ahosyneyYour response to my question:
[b]Did the Koran state that Allah gave the Land of Palestine to the Jews?
No,
Actually I am not asking, I am telling you that both the Koran and the Bible state this and you are aware of it.
If that is the case then you are wrong. My be the Bible yes but Quran no.
If you adhere to the teachings of the Koran (which I know you do), rother: so separate us from this rebellious people!"
PIC...[/b]
Did the Koran state that Allah gave the Land of Palestine to the Jews?
No,
Your response to essentially the same question by TW:
2. Who did God give the Land of Palestine to and when and under what conditions?
In Quran there is nothing about the land of Palastine in specific. There is only one thing you may find in Quran, And it was given to the sons of Isreal at the time of Mosses, and with a condition that they didn't follow.
Then you quote Surah 5:21 "O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin."
You pretend that you dont know that the Holy Land and Land of Palestine is one and the same.
Even more hilarious is "
"..12 sons of Jacob are Muslims in Quran like their father Jacob, their grandfathers Ezzak, and Ismail, and their grandfather Abraham.."
Yep .. the entire Ancient world were muslims.. 😀
OK ... enough. Keep your twisted lies to yourself.
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Originally posted by Rajk999If you are not able to read, it is not my problem!!!
Your response to my question:
Did the Koran state that Allah gave the Land of Palestine to the Jews?
No,
Your response to essentially the same question by TW:
[i]2. Who did God give the Land of Palestine to and when and under what conditions?
In Quran there is nothing about the land of Palastine in specific. There is only one thing y ntire Ancient world were muslims.. 😀
OK ... enough. Keep your twisted lies to yourself.
Your question was did Allah in Quran gave the land of Palestine to Jews?
And my answer was and still no.
If you know where Allah said I gave the land of Palestine to Jews for ever then go ahead and show it.
-your problem is that you try to apply the concepts of the Bible of Quran, which doesn't work.
Jews in Quran are not the people of GOD, and are said to be those whom Thou hast favoured;
Also Quran say:
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YUSUFALI: The Jews say: "Allah's hand is tied up." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief.
PICKTHAL: The Jews say: Allah's hand is fettered. Their hands are fettered and they are accursed for saying so. Nay, but both His hands are spread out wide in bounty. He bestoweth as He will. That which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them, and We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection. As often as they light a fire for war, Allah extinguisheth it. Their effort is for corruption in the land, and Allah loveth not corrupters.
SHAKIR: And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.
So they are not the people of GOD, and so your assumption that they are promised anything is not correct in the context of Quran, unless of course you follow the common Christian approach: Take one verse that may match you believe and ignore anything else.
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Yep .. the entire Ancient world were muslims..
did I say the entire ancient world were Muslims, I said all the prophets and their followers were Muslims. You are asking about Quran and that is what Quran say. If you refuse that it is up to you, but don't try to use Quran to prove your point or applying the concepts in the Bible on Quran.
OK ... enough. Keep your twisted lies to yourself.
Where did I exactly lied. You asked about Quran not the Bible.
Quran say that all prophets are Muslims. and I showed you several verses about that. This includes Abraham, Isak , Jacob and his sons. And not only that, the Quran clearly say that they are not Jews. Where did I lie here. If you say Quran is not correct then why try to use it from the beginning.
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The title of this thread is “JESUS vs. muhammad” (which should have been “Jesus vs. Muhammad” ) -there is a very simple way to resolve this issue once and for all -put boxing gloves on their hands and put the pair of them in a boxing ring and ring the start bell and let the punch up begin until there is a clear victor.
Originally posted by Rajk999Clearly both Christians and Muslims think that the Jews lost the way somewhere and therefore have surrendered their right to the 'holy land'.
Then you quote Surah 5:21 "O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin."
You pretend that you dont know that the Holy Land and Land of Palestine is one and the same.
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonMuslims don't make such a stupid comparison. Jesus and Muhammed Peace be upon them , are both great prophet and Brothers in Islam, so we don't make comparisons of this type.
The title of this thread is “JESUS vs. muhammad” (which should have been “Jesus vs. Muhammad” ) -there is a very simple way to resolve this issue once and for all -put boxing gloves on their hands and put the pair of them in a boxing ring and ring the start bell and let the punch up begin until there is a clear victor.
As you see it is the problem for non-muslims - specially Christians, who are not able to prove their religion.
Originally posted by twhiteheadCorrections:
Clearly both Christians and Muslims think that the Jews lost the way somewhere and therefore have surrendered their right to the 'holy land'.
1- As I said before Jews and their religion Judiasm has nothing to do with GOD or Allah.
2- There is no such a permanent promise like that in the Bible of the land of Palestine.
3- What was said is the holy land, is not defined any where in Quran, so to know what is it, we have to refer to Sunah, I searched for that and I didn't find any explanation, (I will keep searching) , all what I found some opinions of some scholars saying that it is the land of Egypt, or Syria or Palestine, but I don't know how authentic is this. In all cases, this promise was not permanent, it was not given to Jews, and it was given to the believers with Moses which according to the context of Quran are Muslims. And as you said, they lost this right because they didn't follow Allah.
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Originally posted by ahosyneyI was joking 🙂
Muslims don't make such a stupid comparison. Jesus and Muhammed Peace be upon them , are both great prophet and Brothers in Islam, so we don't make comparisons of this type.
As you see it is the problem for non-muslims - specially Christians, who are not able to prove their religion.
I am an atheist but I think it would seem a bit inappropriate to get them involved in a violent sport.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageHow reliable are these Hadiths
Thank you. How reliable are these Hadiths and how important are they?
They are very authentic. As you may know, they are from Saheh Al Bukhari which is the most authentic Hadith collection.
how important are they?
Like any other Hadith, a Muslim should believe in them. All Muslims believe in the second return of Jesus as Imam to Muslims. All Muslims believe that the return of Jesus is one of the Major signs of the end days. And all Muslims believe that the end of the Masekh Al Dajal, the anti christ , will be by the hands of Jesus.
Originally posted by twhiteheadClearly Muslims think that.
Clearly both Christians and Muslims think that the Jews lost the way somewhere and therefore have surrendered their right to the 'holy land'.
Christians believe in the prophecy that the Jews will be scattered among all nations but will return to their homeland :
Ezekiel 11:14 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
15 Son of man, thy brethren, even thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel wholly, are they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, Get you far from the LORD: unto us is this land given in possession.
16 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come.
17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.
18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence.
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Originally posted by ahosyney1. Opinion not fact, and clearly a biased brainwashed one at that.
Corrections:
1- As I said before Jews and their religion Judiasm has nothing to do with GOD or Allah.
2- There is no such a permanent promise like that in the Bible of the land of Palestine.
3- What was said is the holy land, is not defined any where in Quran, so to know what is it, we have to refer to Sunah, I searched for that and I didn't find of Quran are Muslims. And as you said, they lost this right because they didn't follow Allah.
2. 'For ever' implies permanence :
EX 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it FOR EVER.
There are several such verses in the Bible.
3. The term (Al-Ard Al-Muqaddasah, English: "Holy Land" is mentioned at least seven times in the Koran and they all mean Land of Palestine.
Anyway, at what point will Palestinians accept that the Jews are retaking the Land of Palestine as predicted in the Bible and Koran. Its been over 100 years since the Zionist movememt started. Its been over 50 years since the State of Israel was formed. Lands occupied by Palestinians and their right to exist are dwindling. I guess they are waiting for the Messiah to come and move the Jews... happy waiting... 🙂
Originally posted by Rajk9991. Opinion not fact, and clearly a biased brainwashed one at that.
1. Opinion not fact, and clearly a biased brainwashed one at that.
2. 'For ever' implies permanence :
[i]EX 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they ...[text shortened]... g. I guess they are waiting for the Messiah to come and move the Jews... happy waiting... 🙂
Again you still not able to read, Quran say that not me. If you still want to apply the Bible on Quran it is your problem. But Quran is clear in that: The only accepted religion is Islam, other than that has nothing to do with Allah.
003.019
The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.
003.085
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
So Quran is clear in that, so talking about biased brainwashed is a meaningless. You asked about Quran and that is what Quran say. If you don't accept Quran so don't try to use it to prove anything in you faith.
2. 'For ever' implies permanence :
EX 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it FOR EVER.
There are several such verses in the Bible.
Did I say something different, I know what the Bible say. All what I said is that there is nothing like that in Quran, in Quran there is no forever. Please go read, it seems you need English lessons. You claimed that it exists in Quran that Allah give them this land forever, and it is clear that your claim is false.
3. The term (Al-Ard Al-Muqaddasah, English: "Holy Land" is mentioned at least seven times in the Koran and they all mean Land of Palestine.
lie lie lie,
This term exists only once, and I already gave it to you. And you assume that the mean the land of Palestine, which is not supported by any prove except of course the Bible, which doesn't make any sense.
If you know where are the seven places in Quran go ahead show them out.
Anyway, at what point will Palestinians accept that the Jews are retaking the Land of Palestine as predicted in the Bible and Koran. Its been over 100 years since the Zionist movememt started. Its been over 50 years since the State of Israel was formed. Lands occupied by Palestinians and their right to exist are dwindling. I guess they are waiting for the Messiah to come and move the Jews... happy waiting... 🙂
I know that you will do what ever you want to support Isreal even if they kill millions you will say it is Okay, as long as it matches the book named Bible, the only book in the world, the bless the killing of Babies.
Originally posted by Rajk999Can you explain this:
1. Opinion not fact, and clearly a biased brainwashed one at that.
2. 'For ever' implies permanence :
[i]EX 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they ...[text shortened]... g. I guess they are waiting for the Messiah to come and move the Jews... happy waiting... 🙂
(king James Version)(Matthew)
(Mt-21-42)(Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?)
(Mt-21-43)(Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.)
(Mt-21-44)(And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.)
Here Jesus is taking about the Kingdom of GOD and that it is taking from one nation and given to another.
Which nation the Kingdom of GOD is taken from?
Which nation the Kingdom of GOD is given to?
After losing the Kingdom of GOD will GOD keep his promises to that nation?
I hope to see some truthful answer here!!!