1. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    05 Sep '08 17:001 edit
    For those of you who think that I am some kind of ToO stalker it's time to put the record straight. To me ToO's view of Jesus is very dangerous. It encourages perfectionism , denigrates the grace of God and is not consistent.

    The main problem with it is that he thinks he can take a slice out of Jesus's words and dismiss or ignore the rest. This is blatant intellectual dishonesty because the idea that he is the Son of the Living God who came to die for sins CANNOT be separated from his teachings. It's an obvious manipulation of the truth. ToO seeks to saw Jesus in half and throw the other half away.

    So what gets me is the intellectual dishonesty and manipulation of Jesus to suit some 'pick and mix' position that fits his warped agenda for revenge on Christians who have treated him badly.

    So basically this makes me queezy shall we say , that someone should use Jesus to try to take revenge on Christianity and Christians whilst at the same time claiming the moral high ground.

    This is no laughing matter , it just has to be challenged and the real motives and beliefs have to be revealed.

    --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

    "I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." CS LEWIS
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    05 Sep '08 18:04
    What I find disturbing about ToO's theology is the disregard for the apostles of Christ.

    Following Jesus was not simply a matter of mentally grasping some teachings. It was an experience - a very deep experience to learn to live by His invisible presence.

    The early disciples were trained and learned to live on by Christ even though they could not physically see and hear Him after His ascension.

    It is fortunate and to be expected that some disciples would excell at the experience of living by Christ. Paul was one brother among others who mastered the experience of living in the realm of Christ. He pioneered into this experience. And it is totally foolish not to learn from him.
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    05 Sep '08 18:252 edits
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    For those of you who think that I am some kind of ToO stalker it's time to put the record straight. To me ToO's view of Jesus is very dangerous. It encourages perfectionism , denigrates the grace of God and is not consistent.

    The main problem with it is that he thinks he can take a slice out of Jesus's words and dismiss or ignore the rest. This is reat human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." CS LEWIS
    Just because I hold different beliefs than you is no call to keep creating threads about me and stalking me everywhere I post. If people think that you are "some kind of ToO stalker", it's because you are. What you are doing is stalking. This has been going on for months now.

    You want to express your views on Jesus, fine, but I'm asking you again to leave me out of it, stop stalking me and to stop lying about me. I have a right to express my views also.
  4. Donationbbarr
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    05 Sep '08 18:56
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    For those of you who think that I am some kind of ToO stalker it's time to put the record straight. To me ToO's view of Jesus is very dangerous. It encourages perfectionism , denigrates the grace of God and is not consistent.

    The main problem with it is that he thinks he can take a slice out of Jesus's words and dismiss or ignore the rest. This is ...[text shortened]... reat human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." CS LEWIS
    You are starting to sound like a crazy person. Relax, this is a forum on a chess site.
  5. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    05 Sep '08 19:131 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Just because I hold different beliefs than you is no call to keep creating threads about me and stalking me everywhere I post. If people think that you are "some kind of ToO stalker", it's because you are. What you are doing is stalking. This has been going on for months now.

    You want to express your views on Jesus, fine, but I'm asking you again to le ...[text shortened]... of it, stop stalking me and to stop lying about me. I have a right to express my views also.
    That's 7 or 8 posts now without addressing the issue at hand. Are you incapable of debating the truth?

    I absolutely encourage you to express your views. That's what I want you to do. I want you to do it more than you seem to want to. Please , join the rest of this forum and tell us what it is you believe.

    I uphold your right to express your views , but I also uphold the right to challenge them and see them explored in full. It's the simple fact that you decline to reveal what it is you believe.

    I would like to see if what you believe is consistent with what Jesus taught , then we can all see if you are being selective and using Jesus as a weopon to fit your needs or trying to fit yourself to the fullness of what he actually taught. I uphold your right to challenge me as long as you are up for the same. I uphold your right to talk about Jesus but you have to be prepared to be taken out of your comfort zones as well.

    Since the vast majority of what you post is ABOUT righteous living then it also might be slightly appropriate if you could say something about your OWN righteousness before commenting on others.

    So please , express away!!!!!!! No-one will be happier than me. But don't think that just because others challenge you on it that they are out to get you. What did you expect on a spiritual debating forum?

    I would love to hear your full and honest views on everything Jesus said and taught and to hear the specifics of what you believe (eg atheist or theist). Go for it!!!!!!! I have been asking you to for months.
  6. Standard memberknightmeister
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    05 Sep '08 19:16
    Originally posted by bbarr
    You are starting to sound like a crazy person. Relax, this is a forum on a chess site.
    I'm chilled man. I'm simply saying it how it is. The irony is that you think I am sounding crazy , but how much crazier does Jesus sound if he is only a moral teacher?
  7. Standard memberknightmeister
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    05 Sep '08 19:20
    Originally posted by jaywill
    What I find disturbing about ToO's theology is the disregard for the apostles of Christ.

    Following Jesus was not simply a matter of mentally grasping some teachings. It was an experience - a very deep experience to learn to live by His invisible presence.

    The early disciples were trained and learned to live on by Christ even though they could not ph ...[text shortened]... of Christ. He pioneered into this experience. And it is totally foolish not to learn from him.
    Yes and Jesus clearly taught men to live by his invisible presence. However , it is unclear if ToO subscribes to this or many other things that Jesus taught. He seems to think Jesus is just a "teacher" , but Lewis's logic points out the error of such thinking.
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    05 Sep '08 19:44
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    That's 7 or 8 posts now without addressing the issue at hand. Are you incapable of debating the truth?

    I absolutely encourage you to express your views. That's what I want you to do. I want you to do it more than you seem to want to. Please , join the rest of this forum and tell us what it is you believe.

    I uphold your right to express your view ...[text shortened]... t you believe (eg atheist or theist). Go for it!!!!!!! I have been asking you to for months.
    I have been asking you to for months

    More like stalking me for months and you know it.

    But don't think that just because others challenge you on it that they are out to get you.

    They don't keep creating threads about me and stalking me everywhere I post. They don't keep telling lies about no matter how many times they've been corrected.

    Once again, stop stalking me. Stop telling lies about me.
  9. Donationbbarr
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    05 Sep '08 19:56
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    I'm chilled man. I'm simply saying it how it is. The irony is that you think I am sounding crazy , but how much crazier does Jesus sound if he is only a moral teacher?
    I am profoundly uninterested in anything Jesus had to say concerning morality or ethics broadly, since he does not present rigorous arguments from secular premises. But that is not my point. My point is that you are stalking and harassing ToO, that it is trashy and lame, and that you should back off.
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    05 Sep '08 20:141 edit
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Yes and Jesus clearly taught men to live by his invisible presence. However , it is unclear if ToO subscribes to this or many other things that Jesus taught. He seems to think Jesus is just a "teacher" , but Lewis's logic points out the error of such thinking.
    but Lewis's logic points out the error of such thinking.

    Lewis's great logic here is simply a false trichotomy.

    And you're off the deep end. You start a thread attempting to "put the record straight" that you are not a stalker; yet, you have only managed to further solidify the conclusion that you are indeed a stalker.
  11. Standard memberknightmeister
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    05 Sep '08 20:36
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    [b]but Lewis's logic points out the error of such thinking.

    Lewis's great logic here is simply a false trichotomy.

    And you're off the deep end. You start a thread attempting to "put the record straight" that you are not a stalker; yet, you have only managed to further solidify the conclusion that you are indeed a stalker.[/b]It
    It's my thread and you are here. Who's the stalker ?
  12. Donationbbarr
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    05 Sep '08 20:39
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    It's my thread and you are here. Who's the stalker ?
    It's still you.
  13. Standard memberknightmeister
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    05 Sep '08 20:42
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    [b]but Lewis's logic points out the error of such thinking.

    Lewis's great logic here is simply a false trichotomy.

    And you're off the deep end. You start a thread attempting to "put the record straight" that you are not a stalker; yet, you have only managed to further solidify the conclusion that you are indeed a stalker.[/b]
    Lewis's great logic here is simply a false trichotomy. -----lemon-----

    Good argument , well explained!

    I think he's saying that a man who claimed that he was going to be the judge of ALL humanity at the end of time would be locked up as insane or seen as dangerous by anyone who was being honest with themselves. This is exactly what he claimed in all seriousness without a hint of embarrassment. And yet people see him as a great "teacher" who was just a man.

    A man who is "just a man" does not say such things unless he is potty or utterly arrogant to the point of delusion and whatever he teaches should NOT be trusted. It's an open and shut slamdunker.
  14. Standard memberknightmeister
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    05 Sep '08 20:43
    Originally posted by bbarr
    It's still you.
    Not another one! I'm calling the police! LOL
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    05 Sep '08 20:48
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    For those of you who think that I am some kind of ToO stalker it's time to put the record straight. To me ToO's view of Jesus is very dangerous. It encourages perfectionism , denigrates the grace of God and is not consistent.

    The main problem with it is that he thinks he can take a slice out of Jesus's words and dismiss or ignore the rest. This is ...[text shortened]... reat human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." CS LEWIS
    With all due respect, this theology has been adopted by everyone other than Christians. Everyone acknowledges Christ was a "good" person and that his teachings were "good", however, what makes one a Christian is to believe he to be God in the flesh. Therefore, I think it safe to assume that ToO is not a Christian.

    The simple fact of the matter is, is that people read the same account of Christ and get two entirely different views of who Christ was. One thing to ponder, however, is that Christ did not go around proclaiming to be the Son of God. In fact, he asked his disciples who he was before telling even them and Peter proclaimed that he was the Son of God. Christ then turned to him and told him that God alone had revealed this to him and charged them not to tell anyone of his identity.

    Having said that, perhaps nothing has changed since the time of Christ in that respect. It is either revealed to us who he is one way or another or we remain blinded?
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