Jesus/Holy Spirit/God?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Technically, Jesus (Yahshua) was born the son of the virgin Mary (Miriam). So Jesus is human, born from a creation of God, and thus called the son of man.

However, God was His Father and not Joseph, who became the human father of Jesus only by way of marriage to Mary. So Jesus is also spoken of as the Son of God or as God manifested in the flesh or as ...[text shortened]... sidered to have been created, but in His divinity He is uncreated, the only begotton Son of God.

"ONLY-BEGOTTEN"

The Greek word mo·no·ge·nes is defined by lexicographers as “single of its kind, only,” or “the only member of a kin or kind.” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144) The term is used in describing the relation of both sons and daughters to their parents.
The Scriptures speak of “the only-begotten son” of a widow who lived in the city of Nain, of Jairus’ “only-begotten daughter,” and of a man’s “only-begotten” son whom Jesus cured of a demon. (Lu 7:11, 12; 8:41, 42; 9:38) The Greek Septuagint uses mo·no·ge·nes when speaking of Jephthah’s daughter, concerning whom it is written: “Now she was absolutely the only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter.”—Jg 11:34.
The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Logos, or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the “only-begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world.”—1Jo 4:9.
He is described as having “a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father,” the one residing “in the bosom position with the Father.” (Joh 1:14, 18) It is hard to think of a closer, more confidential, or more loving and tender relationship between a father and his son than this.—See BOSOM POSITION.
The angels of heaven are sons of God even as Adam was a “son of God.” (Ge 6:2; Job 1:6; 38:7; Lu 3:38) But the Logos, later called Jesus, is “the only-begotten Son of God.” (Joh 3:18) He is the only one of his kind, the only one whom God himself created directly without the agency or cooperation of any creature. He is the only one whom God his Father used in bringing into existence all other creatures. He is the firstborn and chief one among all other angels (Col 1:15, 16; Heb 1:5, 6), which angels the Scriptures call “godlike ones” or “gods.” (Ps 8:4, 5) Therefore, according to some of the oldest and best manuscripts, the Lord Jesus Christ is properly described as “the only-begotten god [Gr., mo·no·ge·nes the·os].”—Joh 1:18, NW, Ro, Sp.
A few translations, in support of the Trinitarian “God the Son” concept, would invert the phrase mo·no·ge·nes; the·os and render it as “God only begotten.” But W. J. Hickie in his Greek-English Lexicon to the New Testament (1956, p. 123) says it is hard to see why these translators render mo·no·ge·nes hui·osas “the only begotten Son,” but at the same time translate mo·no·ge·nes the·os as “God only begotten,” instead of “the only begotten God.”
Paul referred to Isaac as Abraham’s “only-begotten son” (Heb 11:17), even though Abraham also fathered Ishmael by Hagar as well as several sons by Keturah. (Ge 16:15; 25:1, 2; 1Ch 1:28, 32) God’s covenant, however, was established only through Isaac, Abraham’s only son by God’s promise, as well as the only son of Sarah. (Ge 17:16-19) Furthermore, at the time Abraham offered up Isaac, he was the only son in his father’s household. No sons had yet been born to Keturah, and Ishmael had been gone for some 20 years—no doubt was married and head of his own household.—Ge 22:2.
So from several viewpoints in regard to the promise and the covenant, the things about which Paul was writing to the Hebrews, Isaac was Abraham’s only-begotten son. Hence, Paul parallels “the promises” and the “only-begotten son” with “‘your seed’ . . . through Isaac.” (Heb 11:17, 18) Whether Josephus had a similar viewpoint or not, he too spoke of Isaac as Abraham’s “only son.”—Jewish Antiquities, I, 222 (xiii, 1).

Jesus Christ as “the First-Born of All Creation”

TO THE congregation at Colossae, Asia Minor, the apostle Paul wrote concerning Jesus Christ, according to the Common Bible: “He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”—Col. 1:15-17.
What did the apostle mean by calling Jesus Christ “the first-born of all creation”? Paul’s further words enlarge on the matter: “He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.”—Col. 1:18, CB.
Here we find that the Greek words for both “first-born” (protótokos) and “beginning” (arkhé😉 describe Jesus as the first one of a group of class, “the body, the church,” and therefore he has preeminence in this respect. He also has preeminence in being the first one resurrected to endless life from among all the human dead.—1 Cor. 15:22, 23.
The same Greek words occur in the Greek Septuagint translation at Genesis 49:3: “Ruben, thou art my first-born [protótokos], thou my strength, and the first [arkhé, “beginning”] of my children.” (Compare Deuteronomy 21:17, Septuagint.) From such Biblical statements it is reasonable to conclude that the Son of God is the firstborn of all creation in the sense of being the first of God’s creatures. In fact, Jesus refers to himself as “the beginning [arkhé] of God’s creation.” (Rev. 3:14, CB) The New World Translation renders the phrase in this verse: “the beginning of the creation by God.”
There are many who object to the idea of Jesus as being a created person. They argue that since “in him all things were created” (CB)—during his prehuman existence in heaven—Jesus himself could not be a creature. Such individuals believe that Jesus is himself Almighty God, the second person of a “trinity” of three coequal, coeternal persons in one “godhead.”
Individuals of that persuasion interpret the Greek expression (at Revelation 3:14) for “the beginning of God’s creation” as meaning “the origin (or ‘primary source&rsquo😉 of the creation of God.” One who prefers this idea is the noted Greek scholar Henry Alford. Nevertheless, in his work The Greek Testament, Alford concedes: “The mere word arkhé would admit the meaning that Christ is the first created being: see Gen. xlix. 3; Deut. xxi. 17; and Prov. viii. 22. And so the Arians here take it, and some who have followed them: e.g. Castalio, ‘chef d’œuvre:’ ‘omnium Dei operum excellentissimum atque primum:’ [meaning “the first and most excellent of all God’s works”] and so Ewald and Züllig.”
According to The Expositor’s Greek Testament, to understand Revelation 3:14 as meaning that Jesus is “the active source” of creation, rather than the first created person, one must interpret arkhé “as in Greek philosophy and [non-Biblical] Jewish wisdom-literature,=aitía or origin.” The inspired Bible writers, however, never borrowed ideas from Greek philosophy.
But how could Jesus be a creature if “in him all things were created”? At times the Bible uses the word “all” in a way that allows for exceptions. For example, we read at 1 Corinthians 15:27 (CB): “But when it says, ‘All things are put in subjection under him [Jesus Christ],’ it is plain that he [God] is excepted who put all things under him.” As a further illustration the Bible states that “through one man,” Adam, “death spread to all men.” (Rom. 5:12, CB) Though Adam was not part of the “all men” to whom death “spread” (since previous to Adam there was no human who could have spread death to him), he was nonetheless a man. Similarly, though Jesus was not part of the “all things” that came into existence through him, he was, nevertheless, a created person, the very first creature of God. The Greek word panta in certain contexts means “all other,” as in 1 Corinthians 15:24 and 6:18. (See An American Translation, Moffatt, Common Bible.) Hence, the New World Translation reads: “by means of him all other things were created . . . he is before all other things.”—Col. 1:16, 17.
Jesus’ being the firstborn of all creation involves the law of primogeniture, the right of the one born or produced first. From earliest times the real firstborn son enjoyed special privileges that included succeeding to headship of the household and inheriting a double portion of the father’s property. (Deut. 21:15-17) Kingship and priesthood, too, were inherited by the firstborn son of a king or high priest in ancient Israel.—See 2 Chronicles 21:3.
Since Jesus as the firstborn of all creation is a created person, he cannot be Almighty God. The Scriptures repeatedly portray him as in a position subordinate to God. For example, concerning the resurrected Jesus Christ, the apostle Paul wrote: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (1 Cor. 11:3, CB) When giving the inspired “Revelation” to the apostle John, Jesus said concerning himself: “He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.” (Rev. 3:12, CB) Did you note that four times in this verse alone Jesus refers to his Father, Jehovah, as “my God”?—Compare Philippians 2:5, 6, CB.
In no way is this meant to deny the exalted position that Jesus occupies next to God. Before ascending to heaven, Jesus said to his disciples: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” (Matt. 28:18, CB) It was appropriate for God to ‘give’ to his Son such authority, since the Son was the firstborn of all creatures. Right in line with primogenitureship, the apostle Paul could write concerning Jesus: “[God] raised him from the dead and made him sit at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come; and he has put all things under his feet and has made him the head over all things for the church.”—Eph. 1:20-23, CB.

Originally posted by galveston75
"ONLY-BEGOTTEN"

The Greek word mo·no·ge·nes is defined by lexicographers as “single of its kind, only,” or “the only member of a kin or kind.” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144) The term is used in describing the relation of both sons and daughters to t ...[text shortened]... t or not, he too spoke of Isaac as Abraham’s “only son.”—Jewish Antiquities, I, 222 (xiii, 1).

You got the first part of it right until you start talking about the angels and then it starts getting distorted due to the Watchtower influence, I suspect.

Originally posted by RJHinds
There is no split personality within God. Instead there are three whole Persons within God and one God within the three Persons. Paul revealed that in Christ dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily. There is the Person of the Father, the Person of the Son, and the Person of the Holy Spirit. Count them - three Persons in unity making up what we now call ...[text shortened]... he Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves."
(John 14:9-11 NKJV)

That's because Jesus represented God in every way. If you want to know what God is like, look at the son.

"Jesus reflected his Father’s likeness."

God’s firstborn Son, who later became the man Jesus, is in his Father’s image. (2Co 4:4) Inasmuch as that Son was obviously the one to whom God spoke in saying, “Let us make man in our image,” this likeness of the Son to his Father, the Creator, existed from when the Son was created. (Ge 1:26; Joh 1:1-3; Col 1:15, 16) When on earth as a perfect man, he reflected his Father’s qualities and personality to the fullest extent possible within human limitations, so he could say that “he that has seen me has seen the Father also.” (Joh 14:9; 5:17, 19, 30, 36; 8:28, 38, 42) This likeness, however, was certainly heightened at the time of Jesus’ resurrection to spirit life and his being granted “all authority . . . in heaven and on the earth” by his Father, Jehovah God. (1Pe 3:18; Mt 28:18) Since God then exalted Jesus to “a superior position,” God’s Son now reflected his Father’s glory to an even greater degree than he had before leaving the heavens to come to earth. (Php 2:9; Heb 2:9) He is now “the exact representation of [God’s] very being.”—Heb 1:2-4.

If Jesus were infact Almighty God in some other form, he would have stated that. He never did. But he did say he relected his Fathers glory just as a mirror would. A mirror reflects something else, not the one holding it. Why would Jesus use this example if he himself were Almighty God?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
That's because Jesus represented God in every way. If you want to know what God is like, look at the son.

Correct just as an ambassodor would represent his leader.

Ambassodor:

Related to AMBASSADOR
Synonyms: agent, delegate, emissary, envoy, legate, minister, representative

Originally posted by RJHinds
You got the first part of it right until you start talking about the angels and then it starts getting distorted due to the Watchtower influence, I suspect.

So you just kinda pick and choose what fits your ideas? That seems to be a common thread with trinitarians.

Originally posted by galveston75
Correct just as an ambassodor would represent his leader.

Ambassodor:

Related to AMBASSADOR
Synonyms: agent, delegate, emissary, envoy, legate, minister, representative

An ambassador does not lower himself to represent a nation, a President, or a King. An ambassador attempts to rise to a greater level in his representation. The Word, who was God, chose to lower Himself and give up the glory He had with the Father and the Holy Spirit in the beginning to represent the Godhead by taking on human flesh, making Him a little lower than the angels He created.

Originally posted by galveston75
So you just kinda pick and choose what fits your ideas? That seems to be a common thread with trinitarians.

It is definitely a common thread with JWs.

Originally posted by RJHinds
An ambassador does not lower himself to represent a nation, a President, or a King. An ambassador attempts to rise to a greater level in his representation. The Word, who was God, chose to lower Himself and give up the glory He had with the Father and the Holy Spirit in the beginning to represent the Godhead by taking on human flesh, making Him a little lower than the angels He created.

Just don't get it do you? Oh well.

Originally posted by galveston75
Just don't get it do you? Oh well.

I get it. I've been waiting a long time for you to get it. I'm rooting for you.

Originally posted by RJHinds
An ambassador does not lower himself to represent a nation, a President, or a King. An ambassador attempts to rise to a greater level in his representation. The Word, who was God, chose to lower Himself and give up the glory He had with the Father and the Holy Spirit in the beginning to represent the Godhead by taking on human flesh, making Him a little lower than the angels He created.

Really? If Hillary Clinton tried that she would be fired.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Really? If Hillary Clinton tried that she would be fired.

I think Hillary Clinton would have made a better President than Obama. She is a little more conservative.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I think Hillary Clinton would have made a better President than Obama. She is a little more conservative.

That is not the point..

Originally posted by RJHinds
According to the Hoy Bible, Jesus told the wind to be still and it obeyed. Who else has ordered the wind to do something and it obeyed him? Nobody that I am aware of.

I think Poseidon did the same trick to becalm Ulysses.