Spirituality
10 Aug 09
10 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by duecerYou mean like how you and Jaywill do saying that Christ is God ... and thats the definite truth, and anyone who says Christ is the son of God and a separate and distinct entity, you say of them that they cant be Christian? That kind of claim ?
Mr. Mills, an Oxford scholar, produced a work in the late 17th century identifying 30,000 variations in the known Biblical texts. That number has since ballooned to over 150,000. In light of the numerous variations, how can any one group lay claim to absolute authority of God's word?
Well you are guilty. At least with verses like this ..
1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
... you should admit that you cant be sure, becuse Paul sure as hell aint supporting any claim that Christ and God is the same.
God is the Head of Christ , the same way
Christ is the Head of Man,
10 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999I like the discussion.
You mean like you and Jaywill do saying that Christ is God ... thats the definite truth, and anyone who says Christ is the son of God and a separate and distinct entity, you say of them that they cant be Christian? That kind of claim ?
Well you are guilty. At least with verses like this ..
[i]1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of ever ...[text shortened]... ist and God is the same.
God is the Head of Christ , the same way
Christ is the Head of Man,
There is a chance that I am wrong, of course there is also a chance that I am right. When scripture fails when must look at the apostolic tradition of the church for clarity.
edit: Titus 2:13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
2Peter !:1Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
In both cases the rules of Greek grammer refer to the same person since the adjective “our” precedes two
nouns connected by a conjunction.
we can go round and round on this one.
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by duecerI notice you like to claim you are right. You never claim that you could be wrong in the matter of whether or not Christ is God.
I like the discussion.
There is a chance that I am wrong, of course there is also a chance that I am right. When scripture fails when must look at the apostolic tradition of the church for clarity.
Did you not once claim that anyone who does not believe that Christ is God is not a Christian?
I think that says that you not only are sure that you are right, but that Christ will not accept variations to what you believe.
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by duecerGood, then you cannot claim that you are right.
I like the discussion.
There is a chance that I am wrong, of course there is also a chance that I am right. When scripture fails when must look at the apostolic tradition of the church for clarity.
edit: Titus 2:13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us fr ...[text shortened]... “our” precedes two
nouns connected by a conjunction.
we can go round and round on this one.
You should realise that the matter is inconclusive.
If you were right Paul would never say that God is the head of Christ.
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by Rajk999I believe I just did in the post you replied to. However, when the theological waters are muddied with poor translation, we MUST rely on apostolic traditions.
I notice you like to claim you are right. You never claim that you could be wrong in the matter of whether or not Christ is God.
Did you not once claim that anyone who does not believe that Christ is God is not a Christian?
I think that says that you not only are sure that you are right, but that Christ will not accept variations to what you believe.
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by duecerWould you say that this passage is poorly translated ?
I believe I just did in the post you replied to. However, when the theological waters are muddied with poor translation, we MUST rely on apostolic traditions.
1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by Rajk9991. it's not wether the translation is accurate or not, there are likely different greek texts altogether.
Would you say that this passage is poorly translated ?
1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
2. exegetically what does this passage mean? is a better question.
3. how does your reference differ from the following? 2Peter !:1Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
4. which one should be given more credance?
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by duecerI would say Paul should be given more credence if there appears to be an apparent conflict. If it cant be resolved I would simply call it inconclusive. Going back to apostolic tradition is pointless in my opinion and carries the same problems as reading and interpreting the Bible.
1. it's not wether the translation is accurate or not, there are likely different greek texts altogether.
2. exegetically what does this passage mean? is a better question.
3. how does your reference differ from the following? 2Peter !:1Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
4. which one should be given more credance?
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by Rajk999was not Peter (which means rock) the rock upon whom Christ built his church?
I would say Paul should be given more credence if there appears to be an apparent conflict. If it cant be resolved I would simply call it inconclusive. Going back to apostolic tradition is pointless in my opinion and carries the same problems as reading and interpreting the Bible.
Is this one from Titus better because it was written by Paul? Titus 2:13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by duecerWhat part of that conflicts with
was not Peter (which means rock) the rock upon whom Christ built his church?
Is this one from Titus better because it was written by Paul? Titus 2:13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
"1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by duecerOf all the ancient biblical manuscripts that we have in our possession, no two are exactly alike. Every one contains differences, errors, or forgeries.
Mr. Mills, an Oxford scholar, produced a work in the late 17th century identifying 30,000 variations in the known Biblical texts. That number has since ballooned to over 150,000. In light of the numerous variations, how can any one group lay claim to absolute authority of God's word?