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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    14 Jun '18 15:45 / 2 edits
    In the thread 'If OSAS is in the Bible', I said "Many are saved. Not all the saved get eternal life.". JS357 asked "What are they saved from?"

    I had answered this question before in other threads. Here is Pauls answer to that.

    And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:1-9 KJV)


    Paul concludes that the Christian Saints at the church of Ephesus are saved by grace through faith. It is not of works it is the gift of God.

    There are some Christians who after reading this shout out "Hallelujah .. Praise the Lord. We have eternal life." But they ignore what Paul said earlier about what they were saved from and how it is that they can get eternal life which Paul said in Ephesians 4 and 5.

    Eternal life in the Kingdom of God and Saved are two different things.

    Paul said they are saved from
    - a life of sin and death
    - living according to his world
    - living under the influence of Satan

    God has now brought them out of this life of sin and death and quickened them to live a life in Christ. God has done that because God is rich in mercy and full of kindness toward them. They are saved from this life of sin through grace. Now by the death of Christ there is an opportunity for eternal life which is only given to them in ages to come as Paul stated.

    According to Paul, eternal life only comes if these Christian Saints continue with this new life in Christ and follow the commandments and avoid sin. Then will he inherit the Kingdom of God and be granted eternal life as Paul explained in Ephesians 4 and 5. Failure means no inheritance in the Kingdom of God.
  2. 14 Jun '18 15:48
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    In the thread 'If OSAS is in the Bible', I said "Many are saved. Not all the saved get eternal life.". JS357 asked "What are they saved from?"

    I had answered this question before in other threads. Here is Pauls answer to that.

    [i]And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course o ...[text shortened]... life as Paul explained in Ephesians 4 and 5. Failure means no inheritance in the Kingdom of God.
    Only those Christians who have the holy spirit and live accordingly.

    Those who attempt to copy it are simply white washed tombs.

    You need both. Seems that most only choose one.
  3. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    14 Jun '18 18:06
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Only those Christians who have the holy spirit and live accordingly.

    Those who attempt to copy it are simply white washed tombs.

    You need both. Seems that most only choose one.
    Explain the thief on the cross receiving eternal life in Paradise with Jesus based on faith alone.
  4. 14 Jun '18 19:59 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    In the thread 'If OSAS is in the Bible', I said "Many are saved. Not all the saved get eternal life.". JS357 asked "What are they saved from?"

    I had answered this question before in other threads. Here is Pauls answer to that.

    [i]And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course o ...[text shortened]... life as Paul explained in Ephesians 4 and 5. Failure means no inheritance in the Kingdom of God.
    This part answers what I wanted to know:

    “Eternal life in the Kingdom of God and Saved are two different things.

    Paul said they are saved from
    - a life of sin and death
    - living according to his world
    - living under the influence of Satan ”

    In this case “they” are those who are saved but do not get eternal life. This is in contrast to those who are saved and do get eternal life. Of course it is in greater contrast to those who are not saved.

    In my latest and current area of inquiry, I am interested in learning what are the agreed criteria for gaining salvation and for gaining eternal life, assuming as above, that being saved and gaining eternal life differ from one another both in terms of what is gained and what a person can do or must do, if anything, to gain each of them. I believe the active Christians on this forum constitute a good cross section of Christian thought, although possibly lacking an RCC POV. At any rate, you Christians are who I am asking.

    There seems to be agreement that one must accept Jesus Christ into one’s heart and life as the divine sacrifice that offers redemption for our sins as a gift of grace, or words to that effect. That’s about as far as I get before running into areas of disagreement. I would rather hear about more areas of agreement, than of disagreement, in this inquiry.

    I hope to show respect for you in this effort.
  5. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    14 Jun '18 20:22 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @js357
    This part answers what I wanted to know:

    “Eternal life in the Kingdom of God and Saved are two different things.

    Paul said they are saved from
    - a life of sin and death
    - living according to his world
    - living under the influence of Satan ”

    In this case “they” are those who are saved but do not get eternal life. This is in contrast to those wh ...[text shortened]... eement, than of disagreement, in this inquiry.

    I hope to show respect for you in this effort.
    There are several rules in the Bible which Christians tend to get confused.
    There are rules of Jews.
    There are rules of Chrsitans
    There are rules for those with no law.

    Jews follow the law of Moses
    Christians are supposed to follow Christ
    Some Christians follow Paul only
    [My view is that both are compatible ].

    Christians who follow Christ are judged by their works.
    Some Christians [the elect] get to by pass judgment and are in the Kingdom of God,
    But most wont fall into this category
    [Matt 25 spells this out clearly how the judgement takes place]

    Those with no law are judged according to the law by which they live.
    Jesus said nothing of His sacrifice as a requirement for eternal life.
    Let me know if you understand and if you need references
  6. 14 Jun '18 21:19
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    There are several rules in the Bible which Christians tend to get confused.
    There are rules of Jews.
    There are rules of Chrsitans
    There are rules for those with no law.

    Jews follow the law of Moses
    Christians are supposed to follow Christ
    Some Christians follow Paul only
    [My view is that both are compatible ].

    Christians who follow Christ are ju ...[text shortened]... ice as a requirement for eternal life.
    Let me know if you understand and if you need references
    I hope to be informed of areas of general agreement.
  7. 15 Jun '18 11:00
    Originally posted by @js357
    I hope to be informed of areas of general agreement.
    Well since there have been no other comments I will ask you another question if you would please care to comment.

    What do you think are some significant areas of agreement among the Christians in this forum? By significant, I mean that matter, not trivial like how many loaves were miraculously divided to feed the multitude.
  8. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    15 Jun '18 12:06 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Christians who follow Christ are judged by their works.
    Some Christians [the elect] get to by pass judgment and are in the Kingdom of God,
    But most wont fall into this category
    [Matt 25 spells this out clearly how the judgement takes place]


    This is poor teaching of the Bible.

    1.) Paul said of Christians - we will ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ. You say only some will .

    First answer this. IF Paul said ALL including himself, what gives you the ground to say ...

    "Some Christians [the elect] get to by pass judgment ..."

    Which should I believe, you or the New Testament?

    "For we [including himself] must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body according to what he has practiced, whether good or bad." (2 Cor. 5:10)


    See if you can give a logical reply without frothing over with angry insults.

    2.) If the judgment of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25:31-46 is a judgment of Christians than WHO are the ones whom He describes as His brothers down to the least of them?

    "Inasmuch as you have done it to one of these, the least of My brothers, you have done it to Me." (v.40)

    "Inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, neither have you done it to Me." (v.45)


    The sheep in Matthew 25:31-46 are not the kind of sheep as disciples of Jesus in John 10. They are the Gentile nations of whom the Bible says - all created people - are the sheep of His hand. They did not create themselves. God made them.

    "Know that it is Jehovah who is God; If is He who has made us and not we ourselves.

    We are His people and the SHEEP of His pasture." (Psalm 100:3)
  9. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    15 Jun '18 12:08
    Originally posted by @js357
    Well since there have been no other comments I will ask you another question if you would please care to comment.

    What do you think are some significant areas of agreement among the Christians in this forum? By significant, I mean that matter, not trivial like how many loaves were miraculously divided to feed the multitude.
    For me there is almost no agreement. Because of the total disarray of Christian churches, and rampant false doctrines I have gone away from that and I choose to focus on the doctrine of Christ. Others focus on the teachings of Paul, and not the entire teachings but rather just a part. This is demonstrated by the opening post. They see the word 'saved' and they assume it is eternal life, when Paul said no such thing and explained how one gets eternal life.
  10. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    15 Jun '18 12:12
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Christians who follow Christ are judged by their works.
    Some Christians [the elect] get to by pass judgment and are in the Kingdom of God,
    But most wont fall into this category
    [Matt 25 spells this out clearly how the judgement takes place]


    This is poor teaching of the Bible.

    [b] 1.)
    Paul said of Christians - we will ALL ...[text shortened]... ot we ourselves.

    We are His people and the SHEEP of His pasture." (Psalm 100:3) [/b] [/quote][/b]
    Poor teaching .. and you dont want insults?
  11. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    15 Jun '18 12:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Poor teaching .. and you dont want insults?
    No explanation noted.
    You can't answer because you're wrong about Matthew 25:31-46

    That is NOT the judgment of Christians.
    That is NOT the judgment seat of Christ.

    That judgment there between sheep and goats is a judgment of the nations that pass through the great tribulation and are alive to meet Jesus when He touches down again on earth in the Holy Land.

    It is not even the last judgment of the great white throne in Revelation 20.
  12. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    15 Jun '18 13:05 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    For me there is almost no agreement. Because of the total disarray of Christian churches, and rampant false doctrines I have gone away from that and I choose to focus on the doctrine of Christ. Others focus on the teachings of Paul, and not the entire teachings but rather just a part. This is demonstrated by the opening post. They see the word 'saved' and ...[text shortened]... assume it is eternal life, when Paul said no such thing and explained how one gets eternal life.
    There is no argument from me that the word "saved" has a number of nuanced meanings in the Bible.

    If you think nobody but YOU has ever noticed that, you're foolishly full of your self.

    You really have an Elijah complex - "Oh I'm the ONLY prophet LEFT and they seek my life! "

    What makes you think you are the only Bible student that has noticed that there are a number of nuanced meanings of the word "saved" in the Bible ?
  13. 15 Jun '18 16:27
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    In the thread 'If OSAS is in the Bible', I said "Many are saved. Not all the saved get eternal life.". JS357 asked "What are they saved from?"

    I had answered this question before in other threads. Here is Pauls answer to that.

    [i]And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course o ...[text shortened]... life as Paul explained in Ephesians 4 and 5. Failure means no inheritance in the Kingdom of God.
    You guys just can't help it, can you?
  14. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    15 Jun '18 16:39
    Originally posted by @js357
    Well since there have been no other comments I will ask you another question if you would please care to comment.

    What do you think are some significant areas of agreement among the Christians in this forum? By significant, I mean that matter, not trivial like how many loaves were miraculously divided to feed the multitude.
    Understanding the bible is like understanding people : you have to be a)Evalute things correctly , b)See beneath the words , ie . Go beyond just the literal meaning (without disregarding it) and see what the spirit of the person/bible verse is.

    I open the bible randomly from time to time and it always says something awesome pertaining to my life. Sort of like tarot but I dont do them.
  15. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    15 Jun '18 16:39
    Originally posted by @js357
    You guys just can't help it, can you?
    Did I not answer your question?