JW Question

Originally posted by galveston75
No we don't advocate stoning anyone to death because those laws were done away with which are clearly explained in the Bible. They were established by God for many reasons. But the law given to Noah about blood has never been changed or altered by God.
So as I said until he tells us differently we still obey him and his command to us............

Well you got me there.


(Only because I dont feel confident enough to delve into discussing the bible)


Nevertheless, God or no, I dont think someone should die because their religion forbids them to have a blood transfusion.

There is no way around this point for you, it seems, and therefor you come off as a bit of a silly person , because for one , WE are all One, (ie we al share the same Mind, a bond stronger than blood) and secondly because it is plainly counterintuitive to not give someone a life saving operation when there is no one else being harmed (except the "word of God", which is is subject to dispute, maybe not by you JWs, but certainly by the rest of humanity)

As I've said before, if any religion was totally right , then everyone would've caught on by now and forums like these would not be needed.
If the words on this forum are anything to go by, and indeed if there were a general agreement as to the actual nature of "God", then there would be no dispute amongst christians-let alone dispute amongst peoples from other religions.
Also there would be no need for me to constantly use inverted commas around the word "god" every time I mention It (Him).

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Do you guys really believe everything you're fed through the news?
Seriously, there is a lot more going on than you know.
At least I'm trying to find answers, and while that story may not be true, i believe it may be (the reasons for believing it to be true are many and varied and inapropriate for me to bore you with here. I'll leave it as saying tha ...[text shortened]... ent, because , after all, all I have to offer here is words, unfortunately.

OK ... my apologies for not believing you. But you have to admit that some of the stuff you post is rather far out.

If I were you I would try to have some proof of what you say before I say it. I am pretty easygoing when it comes to intelligent life way out there on other planets as Im sure it exists but I would not claim to have proof of it. If you have some proof or personal experience then spill the beans ..🙂 start another thread if necessary, I would be interested in reading what you write.

From what I can tell, a JW will not donate blood even to save his or her own parent or child. This is a very sad state of affairs and does not reflect well because the lack of donation in life saving situations (such as in combat situations in war, or after a car accident, for examples) strikes me as very cruel. It is one thing to throw away your own life by not accepting a blood donation, but another to let some one else die. If you let a person die you could have saved, you are the fault and to blame god for it is beyond the pale!

Originally posted by 667joe
From what I can tell, a JW will not donate blood even to save his or her own parent or child. This is a very sad state of affairs and does not reflect well because the lack of donation in life saving situations (such as in combat situations in war, or after a car accident, for examples) strikes me as very cruel. It is one thing to throw away your own lif ...[text shortened]... person die you could have saved, you are the fault and to blame god for it is beyond the pale!

I understand your viewpoint but your not understanding God's viewpoint of blood and what it means to him both spiritually and even physically.
If you were to read the scripture that says to abstain from blood and catch the part that it says afterwards about "good health to you" would indicate that God knows the dangers of taking someone elses blood into your body.
True science has made improvement on cleaning blood of a few problems but they are not there yet on perfecting it and making sure it is completely free from contaminants.
But the point is even if we don't fully understand the reasons, God has to this date told us to ABSTAIN from blood. We didn't write the bible and add that line in there. God said it and if one is interested in obeying God, then this is one command one would have to obey............... One can't pick and chose what they think is right or wrong or out of date.

Originally posted by Rajk999
OK ... my apologies for not believing you. But you have to admit that some of the stuff you post is rather far out.

If I were you I would try to have some proof of what you say before I say it. I am pretty easygoing when it comes to intelligent life way out there on other planets as Im sure it exists but I would not claim to have proof of it. If you h ...[text shortened]... beans ..🙂 start another thread if necessary, I would be interested in reading what you write.

Personal experience does not count as evidence.
And thats mainly what I have to go on.

The main message is that "We" are the answer. Literally.
We have the power to unify the planet, to overcome fear and to build a world that is harmonious with "God" and nature.

I've tried in the past to put forward my views about this on my own thread but it didn't seem to get very far as I didn't have enough proof for any of my claims to be taken seriously.
I gave some references to books, but they were not peer reviewed scientific journals, and yada,yada.

It's a difficult and thankless exercise for me to try to put forward my theories of humanity,aliens,etc.

One needs to be able to exercise common sense when dealing with this stuff.
For example. Why is the world so screwed up? (Why are there so many starving, why are there wars,etc.) It would seem that the majority want peace. They want people to be fed,housed and properly educated so why isn't it happening?
To find out the answers to that I came to the conclusion that aliens are involved. And that they (the aliens in league with the illumunati) are keeping us bickering amongst ourselves and wasting our potential as humans.
Like on the "Bin Laden" thread. Everyone over there is like "lets do it like this" and the other is like" lets do it like this". Bottom line is that we should be getting rid of guns and jails-not making more of them.
Let me know if any of that strikes a chord with you,eh?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Personal experience does not count as evidence.
And thats mainly what I have to go on.

The main message is that "We" are the answer. Literally.
We have the power to unify the planet, to overcome fear and to build a world that is harmonious with "God" and nature.

I've tried in the past to put forward my views about this on my own thread but it d ...[text shortened]... not making more of them.
Let me know if any of that strikes a chord with you,eh?

Could you explain a bit further why you say .. "Why is the world so screwed up?" Specifically screwed up compared to what ? Did the world get worse in the last few hundred years?

In my estimation the world is becoming a better and better place to live with each passing year. Maybe if you understand some world history, and how the last 500 years or so went by, and the atrocious behaviour that mankind exhibited ..

- Slavery and the slave trade
- Cruelty of the Imperialist explorers Columbus etc
- exploitation of indigenous peoples
- open and blatant racial discrimination
- child labour in the Industrial Rev period

Those are just a few. Advances in scientific and medical research have improved living conditions way beyond our wildest expectations in the last 50 years.

Before you moan and gripe and try to find reasons for why the world is such a bad place, you should understand where we came from. I personally think the world is doing very well.

And I dont think that getting rid of guns and jails will solve anything.

Originally posted by galveston75
I understand your viewpoint but your not understanding God's viewpoint of blood and what it means to him both spiritually and even physically.
If you were to read the scripture that says to abstain from blood and catch the part that it says afterwards about "good health to you" would indicate that God knows the dangers of taking someone elses blood int ...[text shortened]... ............... One can't pick and chose what they think is right or wrong or out of date.

I am sure it was Paul that said it, not God. But I don't think it means
what you think it means. However, I will give you the benefit of the
doubt, since I do not know for sure.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Could you explain a bit further why you say .. "Why is the world so screwed up?" Specifically screwed up compared to what ? Did the world get worse in the last few hundred years?

In my estimation the world is becoming a better and better place to live with each passing year. Maybe if you understand some world history, and how the last 500 years or so we ...[text shortened]... s doing very well.

And I dont think that getting rid of guns and jails will solve anything.

I agree that the world has gotten better. I pretty much agree with your appraisal of the last 500 years.

Perhaps I should've said that we need to get rid of the NEED for jails and guns.

The world is so screwed up because of corruption.

I believe that "god" has a plan for our world, that there is a time limit in which to achieve certain things, foremostly the unification of our planet.

It's not that the world has gotten worse, but it seems to be stagnating.
People dont take the bible seriously enough. In fact it seems that these weekend christians are the main group responsible for not furthering harmony in the world.
(Remember, I have a dig at "weekend christians" regularly on this forum because that is reflective of the society I live in. It's just not good enough.)

I give people leeway for making mistakes, and hopefully learning from them, but I usually draw the line at about 35ish. If someone continues to be a bad person, (for example if they repeatedly bash their wife and kids and try to justify it somehow), then I will step in.
We need action. We need to be brave. We need to make "loving our fellow humans" a practical ,everyday issue, not just a pipe dream that most treat it as.
And because these people call themselves christian, I believe that we should stand up for what is right, christian or not, and "take back the power", which starts with understanding who we really are and not the lie that we have been born into and perpetuate to our children.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it was used in a metaphorical sense and i had no idea that you have renounced the
catholic church, never the less, there have been far more persons killed through the
use of contaminated blood than there have by those who have exercised the right
of self determination, nor can you use the argument that many more have been
saved as you have no ...[text shortened]... o exercise their
conscience as they see fit.

We can donate major organs, such as kidneys.

it was used in a metaphorical sense and i had no idea that you have renounced the catholic church

Well, I have told you in the past, not that it has any current relevance.

use of contaminated blood than there have by those who have exercised the right
of self determination, nor can you use the argument that many more have been
saved as you have no way of knowing whether they would have recovered if
alternatives had been made available.

This has been argued enough. The fact is that you are wrong. Religious dogma has deprived you of any rational thought on this matter. There are many medical situations in which only whole blood transfusions can save the patient. Victims of severe car accidents, for example, would not benefit from blood fractions. Substantial loss of blood necessitates a whole blood transfusion to recuperate haemoglobin loss. As a consequence, more people would therefore die if they did not receive whole blood donations.

lastly as we shall not donate blood, in whole or in part, therefore iit becomes
physically impossible for us to donate any of its constituent parts. In individual
circumstances blood fractions may be unavoidable as in inoculations, some of which
are derived from animal blood. I myself will not take them unless they are
recombinant or wholly unavoidable, others have the right to exercise their
conscience as they see fit.

We can donate major organs, such as kidneys.

So you cannot donate blood plasma but you can donate organs? Your religion is a blight on humanity.

Originally posted by galveston75
I understand your viewpoint but your not understanding God's viewpoint of blood and what it means to him both spiritually and even physically.
If you were to read the scripture that says to abstain from blood and catch the part that it says afterwards about "good health to you" would indicate that God knows the dangers of taking someone elses blood int ...[text shortened]... ............... One can't pick and chose what they think is right or wrong or out of date.

True science has made improvement on cleaning blood of a few problems but they are not there yet on perfecting it and making sure it is completely free from contaminants.

You are clearly misguided. Blood is not 'cleaned'. Blood is nowadays screened. Doners who are identified as carrying some pathogen are excluded in the screening process.

But the point is even if we don't fully understand the reasons, God has to this date told us to ABSTAIN from blood. We didn't write the bible and add that line in there. God said it and if one is interested in obeying God, then this is one command one would have to obey............... One can't pick and chose what they think is right or wrong or out of date.

If blood screening was eventually refined so that no pathogens were transmitted in the donation, what possible reason could God have to prohibit blood transfusions?

Originally posted by Conrau K
it was used in a metaphorical sense and i had no idea that you have renounced the catholic church

Well, I have told you in the past, not that it has any current relevance.

]use of contaminated blood than there have by those who have exercised the right
of self determination, nor can you use the argument that many more have been
saved as you cannot donate blood plasma but you can donate organs? Your religion is a blight on humanity.

Your religion is a blight on humanity.

I resent that, we have saved literally millions of persons from poverty, prostitution,
drug abuse, gambling addiction, illiteracy, nationalism and political strife. We have
Arab and Israelis who sit down together as brother and sister, in the midst of war, we
had Serbs and Croat attend a convention together as brother and sister, former
members of the Irish Republican army and staunch protestants, former members of
the KGB and the people they persecuted, in fact, we have through the application of
Biblical teaching overcome every type of barrier, religious, economic, political and
racial. We are incomparable in this regard, you cant touch us, we are awesome and
we are beautiful!

You are trying to avoid the subject. The bottom line is you blame god for not allowing you to give a life saving blood transfusion. I blame you. You can't hide behind the (invisible) skirts of god.

Originally posted by 667joe
You are trying to avoid the subject. The bottom line is you blame god for not allowing you to give a life saving blood transfusion. I blame you. You can't hide behind the (invisible) skirts of god.

who cares what you blame or think its irrelevant to anyone but you.

The truth sometime hurts! Facts are hard to get around (except for theists!)

Originally posted by 667joe
The truth sometime hurts! Facts are hard to get around (except for theists!)

more mere opinion, unsubstantiated and masquerading as some kind of truth and yet
another simple reflection of your prejudices of which we as theists and Jehovahs
witnesses have overcome, its all just bricks in the wall!