1. Joined
    15 Oct '06
    Moves
    10115
    15 Jan '13 20:54
    Thought this deserved a thread of its own. On another thread a poster made the claims shown in bold. My responses follow.

    BUT the point your missing and that no other Christian religion can agree with, is agreeing even within their churches about the Bible. Not one of any of the other so called Christian religions agrees. Not one of any of the other so called Christian religions agrees. BUT we do. We all do. Everyone of us agrees and that has to say something even if you don't acknowledge that fact.

    While that seems to be a distinction that the Watchtower Society likes to make, the reality seems to be something else. For example, from what I gather the majority of JWs do not, in any way, participate in Lent or pre-Lenten celebrations such as Mardi Gras, Fat Tuesday, Shrove Tuesday, etc. However this is not true of all JWs.

    This full and complete agrement among his followers was clearly explained by Jesus himself. If that were not to be true, he would not have said that but would have said "just do the best you can and don't worry about the specifics" right??? Hardly.

    From what I gather, the Watchtower Society brand of "full and complete agreement" is something other than what Jesus had in mind. For what Jesus had in mind there would be no changes in doctrine, followers would no longer commit sin, etc. In short, all the "full and complete agreement" would be a natural result of all of His followers having become one with God as He was one with God. It would not be the result of disfellowshipment and the threat of disfellowshipment.


    Are the poster's claims valid? Why or why not?
  2. Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    77354
    15 Jan '13 21:13
    1 Corinthians 1:10
    New Living Translation (NLT)

    Divisions in the Church
    10 I appeal to you, dear brothers and sisters,[a] by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose.

    So can one agree that this statement has meaning and would be true?
  3. Joined
    15 Oct '06
    Moves
    10115
    15 Jan '13 21:151 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    1 Corinthians 1:10
    New Living Translation (NLT)

    Divisions in the Church
    10 I appeal to you, dear brothers and sisters,[a] by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose.

    So can one agree that this statement has meaning and would be true?
    Before we go off on a tangent, can you address the two sections of the quoted text in the OP?
  4. Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    77354
    15 Jan '13 21:33
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Before we go off on a tangent, can you address the two sections of the quoted text in the OP?
    I'm wanting to establish this fact first from the Bible that these word by Jesus were said for a reason and if that can and does exist today?
    Give it a chance to be discussed.
    Now if you say that we do not think and speak and believe and understand everything to a T, what are you trying to prove? Do you think we as imperfect humans have to be exactly alike in all things and that we can't make mistakes in judgement because of lack of understanding on subjects such a lent or Mardi Gra for example? Is this your accusation?
  5. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Infidel
    Dunedin
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    15 Jan '13 21:44
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Give it a chance to be discussed.
    just click on "New Thread"
    There - I've done it for you!
  6. Joined
    15 Oct '06
    Moves
    10115
    15 Jan '13 22:19
    Originally posted by galveston75
    I'm wanting to establish this fact first from the Bible that these word by Jesus were said for a reason and if that can and does exist today?
    Give it a chance to be discussed.
    Now if you say that we do not think and speak and believe and understand everything to a T, what are you trying to prove? Do you think we as imperfect humans have to be exactly ...[text shortened]... ck of understanding on subjects such a lent or Mardi Gra for example? Is this your accusation?
    For one, it seems that you are avoiding the salient points of the OP. Why not address them first? Certainly you can address the first point without making Biblical references. How about addressing that first?

    As to the second point, I can see where you might want to cite the words of Jesus and don't mind giving you some leeway there. However, there doesn't seem to be much sense in you starting with the words of Paul.
  7. Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    77354
    15 Jan '13 22:43
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    For one, it seems that you are avoiding the salient points of the OP. Why not address them first? Certainly you can address the first point without making Biblical references. How about addressing that first?

    As to the second point, I can see where you might want to cite the words of Jesus and don't mind giving you some leeway there. However, there doesn't seem to be much sense in you starting with the words of Paul.
    Well first I disagree with you on your claim as to some JW's doing these things. I would simply like to see the proof of this claim before I go any farther with this thread.
    You say it happens, prove it.
  8. Joined
    15 Oct '06
    Moves
    10115
    15 Jan '13 23:241 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Well first I disagree with you on your claim as to some JW's doing these things. I would simply like to see the proof of this claim before I go any farther with this thread.
    You say it happens, prove it.
    Just to be clear, you believe that there aren't any JWs who ",in any way, participate in Lent or pre-Lenten celebrations such as Mardi Gras, Fat Tuesday, Shrove Tuesday, etc." And that if there are, this would be an example that refutes your claim in the first section of the OP. Correct?
  9. Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    77354
    16 Jan '13 00:13
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Just to be clear, you believe that there aren't any JWs who ",in any way, participate in Lent or pre-Lenten celebrations such as Mardi Gras, Fat Tuesday, Shrove Tuesday, etc." And that if there are, this would be an example that refutes your claim in the first section of the OP. Correct?
    Let me make this clear. The subject this scripture is speaking of is spiritual matters. This should be understood that we do all agree on the bibles teachings,
    command and doctrines.
    No matter where you go on this planet we will all answer you the same and with the same scriptures to back this belief up.
    Now lets get another thing clear. Some JW's are either new in the organization and still learning or have perhaps become weak in their faith and weak in their perceptive powers of principles as well as some obvious laws the Bible has in it.
    And it could be because some have either left it or is on the outskirts of the organization and deside not to do as they should in avoiding these things you mention. They lose sight of the dangers and are lettting these worldly things be an attraction to them.
    That being said, no one is forced to walk the straight and narrow so to speak. The Kingdom Hall doors are open for anyone to come in or leave when it comes to their choosing to follow the clear rules in the Bible.
    So just because one says they are a JW and may even attend some meetings, it does not mean they are doing all they should be doing as the Bible directs or warns us not to do.
    If they are doing things they should not be doing, Jehovah sees this and in his time will make this information known to the congregation.
    If that person insist on partaking of these things you mentioned and if the help from the elders is not accepted, then if the congregation thru prayer to God see's it will harm the congregation, they would be given councel.
    This is exactly the way it was set up buy Jesus in the early congregations.
  10. Joined
    15 Oct '06
    Moves
    10115
    16 Jan '13 00:44
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Let me make this clear. The subject this scripture is speaking of is spiritual matters. This should be understood that we do all agree on the bibles teachings,
    command and doctrines.
    No matter where you go on this planet we will all answer you the same and with the same scriptures to back this belief up.
    Now lets get another thing clear. Some JW's ...[text shortened]... e given councel.
    This is exactly the way it was set up buy Jesus in the early congregations.
    Seems like for whatever reason, you are refusing to directly address my post.

    So, I'll have to do it the hard way. Is it correct to infer the following from your post?

    1) There shouldn't be any JWs who ",in any way, participate in Lent or pre-Lenten celebrations such as Mardi Gras, Fat Tuesday, Shrove Tuesday, etc."

    2) Those JWs who do participate in some way are NOT in "full and complete agreement" with the Watchtower Society and the majority of JWs.
  11. Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    77354
    16 Jan '13 01:261 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Seems like for whatever reason, you are refusing to directly address my post.

    So, I'll have to do it the hard way. Is it correct to infer the following from your post?

    1) There shouldn't be any JWs who ",in any way, participate in Lent or pre-Lenten celebrations such as Mardi Gras, Fat Tuesday, Shrove Tuesday, etc."

    2) Those JWs who do participa ...[text shortened]... NOT in "full and complete agreement" with the Watchtower Society and the majority of JWs.
    I guess you do not understand my answers. Must be to long. But yes you pretty much are stating what I said.
    But don't miss the point as I'm afraid you are or just don't want too. Read my answers again and see if you can get my explinations.
    WE are not robots..does that help? Some are not mature in being a JW and following the Bibles councel on these things. Does that help? Some do not fully understand how dangerous doing some if these things are and that they are truly wrong. Do you understand that?

    If you are pushing me to give a simple yes or no answer..it will not happen.
  12. Joined
    15 Oct '06
    Moves
    10115
    16 Jan '13 03:311 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    I guess you do not understand my answers. Must be to long. But yes you pretty much are stating what I said.
    But don't miss the point as I'm afraid you are or just don't want too. Read my answers again and see if you can get my explinations.
    WE are not robots..does that help? Some are not mature in being a JW and following the Bibles councel on these ...[text shortened]... rstand that?

    If you are pushing me to give a simple yes or no answer..it will not happen.
    It isn't that your answers are "too long". It's that you refused to answer either part directly. Both parts were simple enough. Either JWs may or may not participate in Lent or pre-Lenten celebrations. Either JWs that do participate in Lent or pre-Lenten celebrations in any way are in agreement with the Watchtower Society and the majority of JWs or they aren't. You could have simply answered the question directly and ALSO offered explanation or qualification as necessary. What's the point of forcing someone to infer what you mean when you'd be better served by directly answering the questions? Are you afraid to place the beliefs of the Watchtower Society under the light of truth?
  13. Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    77354
    16 Jan '13 03:49
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    It isn't that your answers are "too long". It's that you refused to answer either part directly. Both parts were simple enough. Either JWs may or may not participate in Lent or pre-Lenten celebrations. Either JWs that do participate in Lent or pre-Lenten celebrations in any way are in agreement with the Watchtower Society and the majority of JWs or they a ...[text shortened]... ? Are you afraid to place the beliefs of the Watchtower Society under the light of truth?
    No of course not. I have nothing to hide as neither does the WTS.
    So what is the purpose of this thread? What is your motive and goal here?
  14. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    16 Jan '13 16:10
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Thought this deserved a thread of its own. On another thread a poster made the claims shown in bold. My responses follow.

    [b]BUT the point your missing and that no other Christian religion can agree with, is agreeing even within their churches about the Bible. Not one of any of the other so called Christian religions agrees. Not one of any of th ...[text shortened]... threat of disfellowshipment.


    Are the poster's claims valid? Why or why not?
    of course they are valid.

    here is why:

    every member in the Club of Men who Wear Pink Hats Everywhere They Go (great club btw) is a male who wears a pink hat everywhere they go. no other club can boast such a thing. however, should a member of that club not wear a pink hat everywhere he goes, he would be thrown out, thus preserving the above statement as true.

    It is all quite brilliantly simple.
  15. Dublin Ireland
    Joined
    31 Oct '12
    Moves
    14235
    16 Jan '13 17:05
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    of course they are valid.

    here is why:

    every member in the [b] Club of Men who Wear Pink Hats Everywhere They Go
    (great club btw) is a male who wears a pink hat everywhere they go. no other club can boast such a thing. however, should a member of that club not wear a pink hat everywhere he goes, he would be thrown out, thus preserving the above statement as true.

    It is all quite brilliantly simple.[/b]
    Quick! Where can I buy a pink hat?????
Back to Top