04 Jan 06
Originally posted by Bosse de NageJesus was far from the first to be crucified on a cross. It was a common thing for the Romans to do. As I understand it, "take up my cross" was a common phrase back then, sort of like "oppressed by the man." It's not a phrase you hear every day, buy everybody knows what it means when they hear it.
Thanks.
I'm tempted to think that the author of Matthew was being anachronistic.
Daniel
04 Jan 06
Originally posted by DanielPasonoThat's a perfectly reasonable assumption from our vantage point in time, since we've heard the expression so often. I'd be more comfortable knowing that it was indeed a common expression of times, though.
Jesus was far from the first to be crucified on a cross. It was a common thing for the Romans to do. As I understand it, "take up my cross" was a common phrase back then, sort of like "oppressed by the man."
It's not a biggie.
04 Jan 06
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThe Greek word is stauros, which can mean an upright stake, a pole a pale (a pole sharpened or pointed on one end), or a palisade made of such—as well as possibly a stake with a cross-bar used for crucifixion: i.e., a cross (this is a historical question). It also seems to be related to words meaning firm or hard, such as to stand upright—like a support.
Paging Nemesio...Mathew 16:24...Does the Greek actually say "cross"?
The Greek word airo can mean to take away or remove as well as “take up” or carry. One exegesis I heard in a sermon, that did not rely on either (1) Jesus speaking prophetically here, or (2) Matthew writing anachronistically, was that Jesus was basically saying “pull up your stake and follow me”—i.e. remove whatever it is that keeps you bound to one place, viewpoint, bias, situation, what keeps you in a hardened belief; pull up your supports, etc.
I have no real quarrel with the traditional exegesis. It’s just not the only possibility, if one is willing to step away from the tradition.
If you look up stauros at this site, you can find 67 occurrences in Greek writings including the NT:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/
NOTE: I'm sure that Nemsio can provide more. I'm trying to limit my time one here...
05 Jan 06
Originally posted by vistesdThanks.
The Greek word airo can mean to take away or remove as well as “take up” or carry. One exegesis I heard in a sermon, that did not rely on either (1) Jesus speaking prophetically here, or (2) Matthew writing anachronistically, was that Jesus was basically saying “pull up your stake and follow me”—i.e. remove whatever it is that keeps you bound to one ...[text shortened]... e, viewpoint, bias, situation, what keeps you in a hardened belief; pull up your supports, etc.
05 Jan 06
I don't know the relevance of this, but the thread title reminded me of a gentleman who used to walk around my home town carrying a large wooden cross.He used to pass out fliers and preach to all who cared to listen to him.To a (at the time) satanist he was the worst plague.
A bible thumper who was tired from carrying a cross around.
I never bothered him ,i would just scoff.Now i see that we all carry burdens with or without the cross. I respect his efforts.
05 Jan 06
Originally posted by vistesdSTEAL MY THUNDER!
The Greek word is stauros, which can mean an upright stake, a pole a pale (a pole sharpened or pointed on one end), or a palisade made of such—as well as possibly a stake with a cross-bar used for crucifixion: i.e., a cross (this is a historical question). It also seems to be related to words meaning firm or hard, such as to stand upright—like a sup ...[text shortened]... edu/
NOTE: I'm sure that Nemsio can provide more. I'm trying to limit my time one here...
05 Jan 06
Originally posted by vistesdActually, it's a hell of a lot better than what I knew.
The Greek word is stauros, which can mean an upright stake, a pole a pale (a pole sharpened or pointed on one end), or a palisade made of such—as well as possibly a stake with a cross-bar used for crucifixion: i.e., a cross (this is a historical question). It also seems to be related to words meaning firm or hard, such as to stand upright—like a sup ...[text shortened]... edu/
NOTE: I'm sure that Nemsio can provide more. I'm trying to limit my time one here...
Nemesio