1. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    04 Jan '06 10:031 edit
    Paging Nemesio...Mathew 16:24...Does the Greek actually say "cross"?
  2. London
    Joined
    02 Mar '04
    Moves
    36063
    04 Jan '06 10:14
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Paging Nemesio...Does the Greek actually say "cross"?
    Yes.
  3. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    04 Jan '06 10:22
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Yes.
    I wonder was it a common expression or was he casually hinting at the form his domestic departure would take?
  4. Felicific Forest
    Joined
    15 Dec '02
    Moves
    23661
    04 Jan '06 13:111 edit
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Paging Nemesio...Mathew 16:24...Does the Greek actually say "cross"?
    Young's literal translation:

    http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/index.php?action=getVersionInfo&vid=15&lang=2
  5. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    04 Jan '06 13:22
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Young's literal translation:

    http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/index.php?action=getVersionInfo&vid=15&lang=2
    Thanks.

    I'm tempted to think that the author of Matthew was being anachronistic.
  6. Joined
    27 Dec '05
    Moves
    181
    04 Jan '06 13:33
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Thanks.

    I'm tempted to think that the author of Matthew was being anachronistic.
    Jesus was far from the first to be crucified on a cross. It was a common thing for the Romans to do. As I understand it, "take up my cross" was a common phrase back then, sort of like "oppressed by the man." It's not a phrase you hear every day, buy everybody knows what it means when they hear it.

    Daniel
  7. London
    Joined
    02 Mar '04
    Moves
    36063
    04 Jan '06 13:38
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    I'm tempted to think that the author of Matthew was being anachronistic.
    Why?
  8. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    04 Jan '06 13:38
    Originally posted by DanielPasono
    Jesus was far from the first to be crucified on a cross. It was a common thing for the Romans to do. As I understand it, "take up my cross" was a common phrase back then, sort of like "oppressed by the man."
    That's a perfectly reasonable assumption from our vantage point in time, since we've heard the expression so often. I'd be more comfortable knowing that it was indeed a common expression of times, though.

    It's not a biggie.
  9. Hmmm . . .
    Joined
    19 Jan '04
    Moves
    22131
    04 Jan '06 19:48
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Paging Nemesio...Mathew 16:24...Does the Greek actually say "cross"?
    The Greek word is stauros, which can mean an upright stake, a pole a pale (a pole sharpened or pointed on one end), or a palisade made of such—as well as possibly a stake with a cross-bar used for crucifixion: i.e., a cross (this is a historical question). It also seems to be related to words meaning firm or hard, such as to stand upright—like a support.

    The Greek word airo can mean to take away or remove as well as “take up” or carry. One exegesis I heard in a sermon, that did not rely on either (1) Jesus speaking prophetically here, or (2) Matthew writing anachronistically, was that Jesus was basically saying “pull up your stake and follow me”—i.e. remove whatever it is that keeps you bound to one place, viewpoint, bias, situation, what keeps you in a hardened belief; pull up your supports, etc.

    I have no real quarrel with the traditional exegesis. It’s just not the only possibility, if one is willing to step away from the tradition.

    If you look up stauros at this site, you can find 67 occurrences in Greek writings including the NT:

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/

    NOTE: I'm sure that Nemsio can provide more. I'm trying to limit my time one here...
  10. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    05 Jan '06 05:38
    Originally posted by vistesd
    The Greek word airo can mean to take away or remove as well as “take up” or carry. One exegesis I heard in a sermon, that did not rely on either (1) Jesus speaking prophetically here, or (2) Matthew writing anachronistically, was that Jesus was basically saying “pull up your stake and follow me”—i.e. remove whatever it is that keeps you bound to one ...[text shortened]... e, viewpoint, bias, situation, what keeps you in a hardened belief; pull up your supports, etc.
    Thanks.
  11. Forgotten
    Joined
    15 Sep '04
    Moves
    4459
    05 Jan '06 06:15
    I don't know the relevance of this, but the thread title reminded me of a gentleman who used to walk around my home town carrying a large wooden cross.He used to pass out fliers and preach to all who cared to listen to him.To a (at the time) satanist he was the worst plague.
    A bible thumper who was tired from carrying a cross around.
    I never bothered him ,i would just scoff.Now i see that we all carry burdens with or without the cross. I respect his efforts.
  12. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined
    05 Mar '02
    Moves
    32455
    05 Jan '06 06:43
    Originally posted by vistesd
    The Greek word is stauros, which can mean an upright stake, a pole a pale (a pole sharpened or pointed on one end), or a palisade made of such—as well as possibly a stake with a cross-bar used for crucifixion: i.e., a cross (this is a historical question). It also seems to be related to words meaning firm or hard, such as to stand upright—like a sup ...[text shortened]... edu/

    NOTE: I'm sure that Nemsio can provide more. I'm trying to limit my time one here...
    STEAL MY THUNDER!
  13. Hmmm . . .
    Joined
    19 Jan '04
    Moves
    22131
    05 Jan '06 06:461 edit
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    STEAL MY THUNDER!
    Naw, your knowledge of Greek is far better than mine. Note that I did say that you'd be able to offer more than I did...
  14. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined
    05 Mar '02
    Moves
    32455
    05 Jan '06 06:53
    Originally posted by vistesd
    The Greek word is stauros, which can mean an upright stake, a pole a pale (a pole sharpened or pointed on one end), or a palisade made of such—as well as possibly a stake with a cross-bar used for crucifixion: i.e., a cross (this is a historical question). It also seems to be related to words meaning firm or hard, such as to stand upright—like a sup ...[text shortened]... edu/

    NOTE: I'm sure that Nemsio can provide more. I'm trying to limit my time one here...
    Actually, it's a hell of a lot better than what I knew.

    Nemesio
  15. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined
    05 Mar '02
    Moves
    32455
    05 Jan '06 06:54
    Originally posted by vistesd
    Naw, your knowledge of Greek is far better than mine. Note that I did say that you'd be able to offer more than I did...
    LOL! I was kidding, Uncle 😉
Back to Top