Originally posted by jaywillyes doesn't it
[b]===========================
For another example of this, consider Ephraim and Manasseh in Genesis 48:17-19. Manasseh was the eldest, yet Ephraim was declared the "firstborn" in Jeremiah 31:9, “I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My first-born." Ephraim was named "firstborn" and received the blessing of the firstborn because he was greater, not b ...[text shortened]... rally "born first".
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Bears repeating.[/b]
and actually epiphinehas as i have already pointed out, the term first-born prior to Col 1:15 , is used upwards of thirty times, and in each instance it refers to the first, “The firstborn of Israel” is one of the sons of Israel; “the firstborn of Pharaoh” is one of Pharaoh’s family; “the firstborn of beast” are themselves animals. What, then, causes you to ascribe a different meaning to it at Colossians 1:15? Is it Bible usage or is it a belief to which you already hold and for which they seek some proof to substantiate? mmmm
Originally posted by epiphinehasno, the only thing that i will admit is that it has never, nor ever will mean pre-eminent, its just another trinitarian piece of rhetoric with which they seek to kindle their little dogma over the flames of nonsense, for as has already been pointed out to you, Christ was in each and every instance in subjection to his father, I really a wonder if you people ever read the bible at all?
[b]]i have already given the references and the reasons, they were good, clear sound and reasonable, and i see no reason from this post of yours to conclude any differently.
Do you admit that prototokos (firstborn) need not necessarily refer exclusively to temporal ascendancy?[/b]
The insightful point about Ephraim and Manaseh is due to the great cross handed blessing of Jacob. See the latter chapters of Genesis as Jacob blesses the twelve tribes through his sons.
When Jacob blessed the two sons of Joseph, he crossed his hands putting his right hand on the son on the left in a criscross fashion.
Joseph tried to change his hands but Jacob told Joseph that he (Jacob) knew what he was doing, The second born son would receive the blessing of the firstborn.
It is really a beautiful picture. You see the manner in which Jacob blessed the second born over the one physically born first came out of Jacob's OWN experience.
He was born second to his brother Esau with whom he was jealous and tricky, planning to rob him of his birthright.
At the end of Jacob's long life he realized that it was not due to his tricks but God's sovereignty that he was blessed above his elder brother.
Oh, that some of you would read through the Bible. The cross handed blessing of Jacob on Ephriam and Manaseh showed Jacob's realization, that God is the one to choose the preeminent one. Time of birth is not always the determining factor.
We thank Epi for bringing this truth out in Jeremiah.
Originally posted by jaywilltruth????, is this what you guys need to resort to, haha, please excuse me while I howl with laughter, LOL!
The insightful point about Ephraim and Manaseh is due to the great [b]cross handed blessing of Jacob. See the latter chapters of Genesis as Jacob blesses the twelve tribes through his sons.
When Jacob blessed the two sons of Joseph, he crossed his hands putting his right hand on the son on the left in a criscross fashion.
Joseph tried to change not always the determining factor.
We thank Epi for bringing this truth out in Jeremiah.[/b]
Originally posted by robbie carrobie===========================
yes doesn't it
and actually epiphinehas as i have already pointed out, the term first-born prior to Col 1:15 , is used upwards of thirty times, and in each instance it refers to the first, “The firstborn of Israel” is one of the sons of Israel; “the firstborn of Pharaoh” is one of Pharaoh’s family; “the firstborn of beast” are themselves animals. ...[text shortened]... it a belief to which you already hold and for which they seek some proof to substantiate? mmmm
What, then, causes you to ascribe a different meaning to it at Colossians 1:15? Is it Bible usage or is it a belief to which you already hold and for which they seek some proof to substantiate? mmmm
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What causes you to believe that the Word was with one God but Himself was another God ?
Context of the whole teaching of Scripture puts more weight on the interpretation that Christ in Colossians 1:15 is not another lesser created god.
Originally posted by jaywillLOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL heheheheheh, hahahahah, it is to laugh, frolic frolic through the daises, one twisted text and an interpretation and you would think that Christ had returned. is it any wonder that a man could not restrain himself from laughter, howling laughter?
Your resorting to ridicule is suggestive of the weakness of your position.
Laugh harder.
1. Genesis 4:4
But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering,
2. Genesis 10:15
Canaan was the father of Sidon his firstborn, and of the Hittites,
3. Genesis 22:21
Uz the firstborn, Buz his brother, Kemuel (the father of Aram),
4. Genesis 25:13
These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam,
5. Genesis 27:19
Jacob said to his father, "I am Esau your firstborn. I have done as you told me. Please sit up and eat some of my game so that you may give me your blessing."
6. Genesis 27:32
His father Isaac asked him, "Who are you?" "I am your son," he answered, "your firstborn, Esau."
7. Genesis 35:23
The sons of Leah: Reuben the firstborn of Jacob, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar and Zebulun.
8. Genesis 36:15
These were the chiefs among Esau's descendants: The sons of Eliphaz the firstborn of Esau: Chiefs Teman, Omar, Zepho, Kenaz,
9. Genesis 38:6
Judah got a wife for Er, his firstborn, and her name was Tamar.
10. Genesis 38:7
But Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the LORD's sight; so the LORD put him to death.
11. Genesis 41:51
Joseph named his firstborn Manasseh and said, "It is because God has made me forget all my trouble and all my father's household."
12. Genesis 43:33
The men had been seated before him in the order of their ages, from the firstborn to the youngest; and they looked at each other in astonishment.
13. Genesis 46:8
These are the names of the sons of Israel (Jacob and his descendants) who went to Egypt: Reuben the firstborn of Jacob.
14. Genesis 48:14
But Israel reached out his right hand and put it on Ephraim's head, though he was the younger, and crossing his arms, he put his left hand on Manasseh's head, even though Manasseh was the firstborn.
15. Genesis 48:18
Joseph said to him, "No, my father, this one is the firstborn; put your right hand on his head."
16. Genesis 49:3
"Reuben, you are my firstborn, my might, the first sign of my strength, excelling in honor, excelling in power.
17. Exodus 4:22
Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,
18. Exodus 4:23
and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.' "
19. Exodus 6:14
These were the heads of their families : The sons of Reuben the firstborn son of Israel were Hanoch and Pallu, Hezron and Carmi. These were the clans of Reuben.
20. Exodus 11:1
[ The Plague on the Firstborn ] Now the LORD had said to Moses, "I will bring one more plague on Pharaoh and on Egypt. After that, he will let you go from here, and when he does, he will drive you out completely.
21. Exodus 11:5
Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well.
22. Exodus 12:12
"On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn—both men and animals—and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD.
23. Exodus 12:29
At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.
24. Exodus 13:1
[ Consecration of the Firstborn ] The LORD said to Moses,
25. Exodus 13:2
"Consecrate to me every firstborn male. The first offspring of every womb among the Israelites belongs to me, whether man or animal."
26. Exodus 13:12
you are to give over to the LORD the first offspring of every womb. All the firstborn males of your livestock belong to the LORD.
27. Exodus 13:13
Redeem with a lamb every firstborn donkey, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem every firstborn among your sons.
28. Exodus 13:15
When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the LORD killed every firstborn in Egypt, both man and animal. This is why I sacrifice to the LORD the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.'
29. Exodus 22:29
"Do not hold back offerings from your granaries or your vats. "You must give me the firstborn of your sons.
30. Exodus 34:19
"The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock.
31. Exodus 34:20
Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons. "No one is to appear before me empty-handed.
32. Leviticus 27:26
" 'No one, however, may dedicate the firstborn of an animal, since the firstborn already belongs to the LORD; whether an ox or a sheep, it is the LORD's.
33. Numbers 1:20
From the descendants of Reuben the firstborn son of Israel: All the men twenty years old or more who were able to serve in the army were listed by name, one by one, according to the records of their clans and families.
34. Numbers 3:2
The names of the sons of Aaron were Nadab the firstborn and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar.
35. Numbers 3:13
for all the firstborn are mine. When I struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, I set apart for myself every firstborn in Israel, whether man or animal. They are to be mine. I am the LORD."
36. Numbers 3:40
The LORD said to Moses, "Count all the firstborn Israelite males who are a month old or more and make a list of their names.
37. Numbers 3:41
Take the Levites for me in place of all the firstborn of the Israelites, and the livestock of the Levites in place of all the firstborn of the livestock of the Israelites. I am the LORD."
38. Numbers 3:42
So Moses counted all the firstborn of the Israelites, as the LORD commanded him.
39. Numbers 3:43
The total number of firstborn males a month old or more, listed by name, was 22,273.
40. Numbers 3:45
"Take the Levites in place of all the firstborn of Israel, and the livestock of the Levites in place of their livestock. The Levites are to be mine. I am the LORD.
41. Numbers 3:46
To redeem the 273 firstborn Israelites who exceed the number of the Levites,
42. Numbers 3:50
From the firstborn of the Israelites he collected silver weighing 1,365 shekels, according to the sanctuary shekel.
43. Numbers 8:16
They are the Israelites who are to be given wholly to me. I have taken them as my own in place of the firstborn, the first male offspring from every Israelite woman.
44. Numbers 8:17
Every firstborn male in Israel, whether man or animal, is mine. When I struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, I set them apart for myself.
45. Numbers 8:18
And I have taken the Levites in place of all the firstborn sons in Israel.
46. Numbers 18:15
The first offspring of every womb, both man and animal, that is offered to the LORD is yours. But you must redeem every firstborn son and every firstborn male of unclean animals.
47. Numbers 18:17
"But you must not redeem the firstborn of an ox, a sheep or a goat; they are holy. Sprinkle their blood on the altar and burn their fat as an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
48. Numbers 26:5
The descendants of Reuben, the firstborn son of Israel, were: through Hanoch, the Hanochite clan; through Pallu, the Palluite clan;
49. Numbers 33:4
who were burying all their firstborn, whom the LORD had struck down among them; for the LORD had brought judgment on their gods.
50. Deuteronomy 12:6
there bring your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, what you have vowed to give and your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks.
51. Deuteronomy 12:17
You must not eat in your own towns the tithe of your grain and new wine and oil, or the firstborn of your herds and flocks, or whatever you have vowed to give, or your freewill offerings or special gifts.
52. Deuteronomy 14:23
Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always.
53. Deuteronomy 15:19
[ The Firstborn Animals ] Set apart for the LORD your God every firstborn male of your herds and flocks. Do not put the firstborn of your oxen to work, and do not shear the firstborn of your sheep.
54. Deuteronomy 21:15
[ The Right of the Firstborn ] If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love,
55. Deuteronomy 21:16
when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love.
56. Deuteronomy 21:17
He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father's strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him.
...
58. Joshua 6:26
At that time Joshua pronounced this solemn oath: "Cursed before the LORD is the man who undertakes to rebuild this city, Jericho: "At the cost of his firstborn son will he lay its foundations; at the cost of his youngest will he set up its gates."
59. Joshua 17:1
This was the allotment for the tribe of Manasseh as Joseph's firstborn, that is, for Makir, Manasseh's firstborn. Makir was the ancestor of the Gileadites, who had received Gilead and Bashan because the Makirites were great soldiers.
60. 1 Samuel 8:2
The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba.
61. 1 Samuel 17:13
Jesse's three oldest sons had followed Saul to the war: The firstborn was Eliab; the second, Abinadab; and the third, Shammah.
Sons were born to David in Hebron: His firstborn was Amnon the son of Ahinoam of Jezreel;
63. 1 Kings 16:34
In Ahab's time, Hiel of Bethel rebuilt Jericho. He laid its foundations at the cost of his firstborn son Abiram, and he set up its gates at the cost of his youngest son Segub, in accordance with the word of the LORD spoken by Joshua son of Nun.
64. 2 Kings 3:27
Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land.
65. 1 Chronicles 1:13
Canaan was the father of Sidon his firstborn, and of the Hittites,
66. 1 Chronicles 1:29
These were their descendants: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam,
67. 1 Chronicles 2:3
[ Judah To Hezron's Sons ] The sons of Judah: Er, Onan and Shelah. These three were born to him by a Canaanite woman, the daughter of Shua. Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the LORD's sight; so the LORD put him to death.
68. 1 Chronicles 2:13
Jesse was the father of Eliab his firstborn; the second son was Abinadab, the third Shimea,
69. 1 Chronicles 2:25
The sons of Jerahmeel the firstborn of Hezron: Ram his firstborn, Bunah, Oren, Ozem and Ahijah.
70. 1 Chronicles 2:27
The sons of Ram the firstborn of Jerahmeel: Maaz, Jamin and Eker.
71. 1 Chronicles 2:42
The sons of Caleb the brother of Jerahmeel: Mesha his firstborn, who was the father of Ziph, and his son Mareshah, who was the father of Hebron.
72. 1 Chronicles 2:50
These were the descendants of Caleb. The sons of Hur the firstborn of Ephrathah: Shobal the father of Kiriath Jearim,
73. 1 Chronicles 3:1
[ The Sons of David ] These were the sons of David born to him in Hebron: The firstborn was Amnon the son of Ahinoam of Jezreel; the second, Daniel the son of Abigail of Carmel;
74. 1 Chronicles 3:15
The sons of Josiah: Johanan the firstborn, Jehoiakim the second son, Zedekiah the third, Shallum the fourth.
75. 1 Chronicles 4:4
Penuel was the father of Gedor, and Ezer the father of Hushah. These were the descendants of Hur, the firstborn of Ephrathah and father of Bethlehem.
76. 1 Chronicles 5:1
[ Reuben ] The sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel (he was the firstborn, but when he defiled his father's marriage bed, his rights as firstborn were given to the sons of Joseph son of Israel; so he could not be listed in the genealogical record in accordance with his birthright,
77. 1 Chronicles 5:2
and though Judah was the strongest of his brothers and a ruler came from him, the rights of the firstborn belonged to Joseph)-
78. 1 Chronicles 5:3
the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel: Hanoch, Pallu, Hezron and Carmi.
79. 1 Chronicles 6:28
The sons of Samuel: Joel the firstborn and Abijah the second son.
80. 1 Chronicles 8:1
[ The Genealogy of Saul the Benjamite ] Benjamin was the father of Bela his firstborn, Ashbel the second son, Aharah the third,
81. 1 Chronicles 8:30
and his firstborn son was Abdon, followed by Zur, Kish, Baal, Ner, Nadab,
82. 1 Chronicles 8:39
The sons of his brother Eshek: Ulam his firstborn, Jeush the second son and Eliphelet the third.
83. 1 Chronicles 9:5
Of the Shilonites: Asaiah the firstborn and his sons.
84. 1 Chronicles 9:31
A Levite named Mattithiah, the firstborn son of Shallum the Korahite, was entrusted with the responsibility for baking the offering bread.
85. 1 Chronicles 9:36
and his firstborn son was Abdon, followed by Zur, Kish, Baal, Ner, Nadab,
86. 1 Chronicles 26:2
Meshelemiah had sons: Zechariah the firstborn, Jediael the second, Zebadiah the third, Jathniel the fourth,
87. 1 Chronicles 26:4
Obed-Edom also had sons: Shemaiah the firstborn, Jehozabad the second, Joah the third, Sacar the fourth, Nethanel the fifth,
88. 1 Chronicles 26:10
Hosah the Merarite had sons: Shimri the first (although he was not the firstborn, his father had appointed him the first),
89. 2 Chronicles 21:3
Their father had given them many gifts of silver and gold and articles of value, as well as fortified cities in Judah, but he had given the kingdom to Jehoram because he was his firstborn son.
90. Nehemiah 10:36
"As it is also written in the Law, we will bring the firstborn of our sons and of our cattle, of our herds and of our flocks to the house of our God, to the priests ministering there.
91. Job 18:13
It eats away parts of his skin; death's firstborn devours his limbs.
92. Psalm 78:51
He struck down all the firstborn of Egypt, the firstfruits of manhood in the tents of Ham.
93. Psalm 89:27
I will also appoint him my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
94. Psalm 105:36
Then he struck down all the firstborn in their land, the firstfruits of all their manhood.
95. Psalm 135:8
He struck down the firstborn of Egypt, the firstborn of men and animals.
96. Psalm 136:10
to him who struck down the firstborn of Egypt His love endures forever.
97. Jeremiah 31:9
They will come with weeping; they will pray as I bring them back. I will lead them beside streams of water on a level path where they will not stumble, because I am Israel's father, and Ephraim is my firstborn son.
98. Ezekiel 20:26
I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn —that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.'
99. Micah 6:7
Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
100. Zechariah 12:10
[ Mourning for the One They Pierced ] "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
101. Luke 2:7
and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.
102. Luke 2:23
(as it is written in t...
102. Luke 2:23
(as it is written in the Law of the Lord, "Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord" ),
103. Romans 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
104. Colossians 1:15
[ The Supremacy of Christ ] He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
105. Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
106. Hebrews 1:6
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
107. Hebrews 11:28
By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.
108. Hebrews 12:23
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,
109. Revelation 1:5
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
Now Gentle reader, you will note of the one hundred or so references to the first born, in each and every case the reference refers to a member of a family, one having a beginning and the characteristics of a creature, or a created being.
but suddenly at colossians chapter 1:15, it does not mean that whatsoever, but takes on an entirely different guise, that of pre eminence. is it not strange, why should this be the case? is it what the bible is stating, or is there a more sinister and underhanded motive, that in trying to establish a doctrine, they are twisting and speaking underhanded things in an effort to substantiate it, i leave you, the discerning reader to decide?
no one is denying that Christ indeed had a pre-eminent position, but this does not make him Almighty God, wisdom personified, yes, only-begotten Son, yes, the Word, yes, Chief Agent of life, yes, the way, the truth and the life, yes, the Messiah, yes, courageous liberator, yes, teacher, yes, wonderful counsellor, mighty god, eternal father prince of peace, yes, Almighty God, NO NEVER IS THIS TERM EVER APPLIED TO JESUS CHRIST<, NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER, ZITHER SLITHER MITHER WITHER EVER ZITHER EVER!
dont believe me, just ask a trinitarian to point out to you where Christ is ever termed Almighty God, and watch them in amazement as they try everything in their power to substantiate their belief, its great fun and very much to be recommended.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieGet it through your thick skull Robbie; its either you accept what Jaywill says or you are not a Christian and you are not saved.
102. Luke 2:23
(as it is written in the Law of the Lord, "Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord" ),
103. Romans 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
104. Colossians 1:15
[ The Supremacy of ...[text shortened]... anded things in an effort to substantiate it, i leave you, the discerning reader to decide?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieno, the only thing that i will admit is that it has never, nor ever will mean pre-eminent...
no, the only thing that i will admit is that it has never, nor ever will mean pre-eminent, its just another trinitarian piece of rhetoric with which they seek to kindle their little dogma over the flames of nonsense, for as has already been pointed out to you, Christ was in each and every instance in subjection to his father, I really a wonder if you people ever read the bible at all?
Firstborn never means "pre-eminent" in any context?
What, then, does firstborn mean in Psalm 89:27:
"I will make him My firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth."
If firstborn in this context does not mean "pre-eminent" or something similar, as you claim, how then should it be understood?
Originally posted by Rajk999i fear my trusty friend that i am doomed, a pestilent fellow fit for the lake of fire, i shall be cast into the abyss with Satan and his Daemons, with Arius, Russell, Servetus and you my friend, chained for a thousand years and then let loose for a little while, to be cast into the pit of eternal darkness, oh how can i be saved from such a fate? if i believe in the trinity can i be saved?
Get it through your thick skull Robbie; its either you accept what Jaywill says or you are not a Christian and you are not saved.
Originally posted by epiphinehasnow you are asking me to substantiate your ludicrous claims, I have already stated that Christ is or has a pre-eminent position, but it hardly makes him Almighty God, does it, it means that he is the first born of all creation and holds or is destined to hold a pre-eminent position. what is it with you people that you find this so hard to understand?
[b]no, the only thing that i will admit is that it has never, nor ever will mean pre-eminent...
Firstborn never means "pre-eminent" in any context?
What, then, does firstborn mean in Psalm 89:27:
"I will make him My firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth."
If firstborn in this context does not mean "pre-eminent" or something similar, as you claim, how then should it be understood?[/b]
i think i know, its the usual practice of taking verse out of context, look, my friend, i will tell you something truly, what does it mean at revelation 3:14, the Greek word for beginning, get that, put it together with first born and then instead of scratching around trying to justify your pagan doctrine, the light of bible truth will shine through and you will be looking at verses in the entirety of scripture rather than making one move blunders.
its 2 AM in Glasgow, i have given enough time to this already for one night, epiphinehas, jaywill, i salute you and go to bed, till we meet again, pistols at dawn, for the honour 🙂
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes, you must believe in the triune God.
i fear my trusty friend that i am doomed, a pestilent fellow fit for the lake of fire, i shall be cast into the abyss with Satan and his Daemons, with Arius, Russell, Servetus and you my friend, chained for a thousand years and then let loose for a little while, to be cast into the pit of eternal darkness, oh how can i be saved from such a fate? if i believe in the trinity can i be saved?
Read Hezekiah 2:6-9. Its all written very clearly there.