1. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
    The Lord's Army
    Joined
    18 Jul '04
    Moves
    8353
    09 Oct '07 15:361 edit
    Local gravity has sometimes been called Newtonian Laws of Gravity. It describes how objects behave in response to Earth's (or a body of similar size) gravitational pull. Some have tried to extrapolate to larger systems with bodies much bigger or much smaller than Earth, but these efforts have been unsuccesful. Let me go on the record by saying that local gravity exists. It can be tested by almost anyone at almost anytime. I can drop an object and observe it fall. This does not mean that we can leap to the conclusion that gravity exists everywhere, the very claim put forward by the theory of universal gravity.

    Univeral Gravitationists (UG's) would have you believe however that because of this gravity exists everywhere! UG's have come up with weak "theories" called Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity. QM attempts to explain the behavior of very small things like subparticles and GR attempts to explain the behavior of very large bodies like planets, stars, and galaxies. However, these notions are very confusing. Even many UG's claim not to understand them. Take the famous physicist, Richard Feynman, who said, "“I think I can safely say that nobody understands Quantum Mechanics." Even UG's doubt QM, and no surprise. Did you know a graviton, the most essential element of QM, has never even been observed? It's just a theory! Not only are these QM and GR weak and confusing, but they are also inconsistent with one another, as well as with local gravity. UG's have been struggling for decades to harmonize them. They call the endeavor TOE, or the Theory of Everything. But to date no one has found it. There are "missing links," if you will, between the theories. Nevertheless, UG's search for these missing links to no avail.

    Now a True Believer could have told them their efforts were futile fron the start because he recognizes that the theory of universal gravity is in direct conflict with the Bible. The Bible tells us that God holds all things together through his Word.* All things means everything from supergalaxies to the electron. Why then do UG's insist on throwing God out of their equations? Simple. They subscribe to an atheistic belief system called "naturalism" which posits that all things in the universe can be explained by natural causes. There is no God according to naturalism so don't bother searching for Him.

    Why do UG's believe in naturalism? Simple. They are in rebelliion to God. They don't want to submit and so they are easily misled by Satan's lies. The devil loves to prey on our weaknesses. Many UG's are scientists and booksmart fellows. It is easy for Satan to decieve them by appealing to their egos. QM and GR are very confusing. By pretending to understand them, UG's feel superior to everyone else. It's just like how Hitler thought his Aryan race was superior to God's Chosen People.**

    So, True Believers, do not be taken in by sciency types who try to tell you that gravity holds everything together. You have the unfailing Word of the Lord on you side, and all a UG has is an empty theory and an aching soul.

    * - Hebrews 1:2-3 tells us "[But] in [a]the last of these days He has spoken to us in [the person of a] Son, Whom He appointed Heir and lawful Owner of all things, also by and through Whom He created the worlds and the reaches of space and the ages of time [He made, produced, built, operated, and arranged them in order].

    He is the sole expression of the glory of God [the Light-being, the [out-raying or radiance of the divine], and He is the perfect imprint and very image of [God's] nature, upholding and maintaining and guiding and propelling the universe by His mighty word of power. When He had by offering Himself accomplished our cleansing of sins and riddance of guilt, He sat down at the right hand of the divine Majesty on high . . ." Amplified Bible

    ** - The connection between UG's and Hitler is not exaggerated when you realized that UG's all believe in macroevolution as well. Macroevolution tells us that we are evolving to be gods. Some people are more evolved then others, it claims, and so we can exterminate the inferior ones. This is known as "survival of the fittest." To learn more of the truth behind the lie that is macroevolution check out www.answersingenesis.com.
  2. Standard memberadam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    Ceres
    Joined
    14 Oct '06
    Moves
    18375
    09 Oct '07 15:53
    Originally posted by telerion
    Local gravity has sometimes been called Newtonian Laws of Gravity. It describes how objects behave in response to Earth's (or a body of similar size) gravitational pull. Some have tried to extrapolate to larger systems with bodies much bigger or much smaller than Earth, but these efforts have been unsuccesful. Let me go on the record by saying that local ...[text shortened]... e lie that is macroevolution check out www.answersingenesis.com.
    Don't you want to really understand these things before talking and making a fool out of yourself?
  3. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    09 Oct '07 16:10
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Don't you want to really understand these things before talking and making a fool out of yourself?
    According to the Bible I thought that's what atheists were suppose to do? 😛
  4. Joined
    28 Aug '07
    Moves
    3178
    09 Oct '07 16:14
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Don't you want to really understand these things before talking and making a fool out of yourself?
    I think he was being a bit sarcastic somewhere.
    But I don't believe in QM either. 😀
    Deterministic until I die!! 😀
  5. Hmmm . . .
    Joined
    19 Jan '04
    Moves
    22131
    09 Oct '07 16:55
    Originally posted by serigado
    I think he was being a bit sarcastic somewhere.
    But I don't believe in QM either. 😀
    Deterministic until I die!! 😀
    I think he was being a bit sarcastic somewhere.

    Yep.
  6. Standard memberagryson
    AGW Hitman
    http://xkcd.com/386/
    Joined
    23 Feb '07
    Moves
    7113
    09 Oct '07 17:07
    Originally posted by telerion
    Local gravity has sometimes been called Newtonian Laws of Gravity. It describes how objects behave in response to Earth's (or a body of similar size) gravitational pull. Some have tried to extrapolate to larger systems with bodies much bigger or much smaller than Earth, but these efforts have been unsuccesful. Let me go on the record by saying that local ...[text shortened]... e lie that is macroevolution check out www.answersingenesis.com.
    First off, Newton came up with his theories of gravitation using lead spheres, heavy, but a single man can lift one, so I think you'll agree that that's a system much smaller than the earth (it can also be observed affecting tiny little electrons and stuff, but it's such a tiny effect that we can normally ignore it in our calculations. But it does exist for such particles.). Newtons Gravity also works perfectly for entire solar systems, which are also much bigger than earth. Admittedly when you get to the size of galaxies things start to get a bit weird, but being curious creatures I'm sure we'll crack that within a decade or two, two really good satellite systems going up in the next few years will give us the observations necessary. UGers don't drop something and say that it must be the same everywhere. They drop something, try to figure out why it did that. We look at other big falling things, like galaxies that are a very big distance away, and they're falling too, so gravity probably has something to do with that too. At galactic scales the jusry is still out, as I said, but we're getting there.
    One big thing you seem to be wrong about is your belief that the graviton is central to quantum mechanics... which is patently wrong. It is a theorised quantum particle, but saying that it is the most essential element of QM is like saying that the letter w is the most essential element of mathematics.

    Just because you find something confusing and are feeling a little bit lonely isn't a reason to just make stuff up. Go read some books on the subjects. Even just articles online or something, wikipedia is excellent for these things. But you really missed a few key points that anyone who has read an intro on the topics can spot. (and before lengthy posts attempting to undermine something like modern science, it's fair to expect that you would have at lest done that much first.)
  7. Standard memberagryson
    AGW Hitman
    http://xkcd.com/386/
    Joined
    23 Feb '07
    Moves
    7113
    09 Oct '07 17:09
    Originally posted by serigado
    I think he was being a bit sarcastic somewhere.
    But I don't believe in QM either. 😀
    Deterministic until I die!! 😀
    You determinists are all the same, why can't you just be happy for us probabilists to believe what we want? Always ramming your deterministic worldview down our throats. It makes me sick. (sarcastic self important snigger)


    Actually, I can see why bibles come in handy when you want to finger-wag at someone!
  8. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    09 Oct '07 17:09
    Originally posted by serigado
    I think he was being a bit sarcastic somewhere.
    But I don't believe in QM either. 😀
    Deterministic until I die!! 😀
    Now that you mention it maybe he was. You know us theists are a bit on the slow side. 😉
  9. Hmmm . . .
    Joined
    19 Jan '04
    Moves
    22131
    09 Oct '07 17:231 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Now that you mention it maybe he was. You know us theists are a bit on the slow side. 😉
    Anyone who knows telerion knows that—

    (a) he has his tongue firmly in his cheek with his post here; or

    (b) he has had in the last few days a monumental (re-)conversion experience.

    Then again, anyone who knows telerion is likely to heavily discount possibility (b)...
  10. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    09 Oct '07 17:271 edit
    Originally posted by telerion
    Now a True Believer could have told them their efforts were futile fron the start because he recognizes that the theory of universal gravity is in direct conflict with the Bible. The Bible tells us that God holds all things together through his Word.* All things means everything from supergalaxies to the electron. Why then do UG's insist on throwing God out ...[text shortened]... led "naturalism" which posits that all things in the universe can be explained by natural causes.
    I have to say that this arguement is pretty lame. Who is to say what that "Word" entails? Who is to say that God did not set up naturalistic laws through his "Word"? In fact, where is the word gravity in the Bible at all?

    Trying to bash the Bible using science is problematic to say the least because it is not a scientific book. It is just as bad as Christians who use the Bible to attack science. Both are equally as guilty and stupid.
  11. Joined
    28 Aug '07
    Moves
    3178
    09 Oct '07 17:27
    Originally posted by agryson
    First off, Newton came up with his theories of gravitation using lead spheres, heavy, but a single man can lift one, so I think you'll agree that that's a system much smaller than the earth (it can also be observed affecting tiny little electrons and stuff, but it's such a tiny effect that we can normally ignore it in our calculations. But it does exist for ...[text shortened]... modern science, it's fair to expect that you would have at lest done that much first.)
    I HAVE A THEORY
    maybe someone made it already

    Gravity "constant" maybe seen as tensor (analogous to stress tensor) that depends on the local elasticity of the universe. Locally (inside our galaxy), we see it as constant, but who says it has to be that way? Maybe it is correlated it the structure of space itself.
    I know what you'll say:
    "Stop reading science fiction books and wake up"
    Well, at least it was an idea.
  12. Joined
    01 Jun '06
    Moves
    274
    09 Oct '07 18:07
    Originally posted by serigado
    I HAVE A THEORY
    maybe someone made it already

    Gravity "constant" maybe seen as tensor (analogous to stress tensor) that depends on the local elasticity of the universe. Locally (inside our galaxy), we see it as constant, but who says it has to be that way? Maybe it is correlated it the structure of space itself.
    I know what you'll say:
    "Stop reading science fiction books and wake up"
    Well, at least it was an idea.
    That's not a theory, it's a hypothesis, unless you have extensive experimental data to back it up which your post implied that you don't.

    It is certainly an interesting hypothesis though.

    --- Penguin.
  13. Joined
    28 Aug '07
    Moves
    3178
    09 Oct '07 18:311 edit
    Originally posted by Penguin
    That's not a theory, it's a hypothesis, unless you have extensive experimental data to back it up which your post implied that you don't.

    It is certainly an interesting hypothesis though.

    --- Penguin.
    Yeah, yeah, an unexperimented theory... you are right. But it's beautiful.
    I have another one to disprove quantum mechanics, but that one is ultra-top-secret.
    Are you reading, adam warlock? You will be without a job 🙂
  14. Standard memberadam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    Ceres
    Joined
    14 Oct '06
    Moves
    18375
    09 Oct '07 19:20
    Originally posted by serigado
    Deterministic until I die!! 😀
    I must tell you that you're wrong then. 😛
    I don't entirely believe in this QM but I think that probabilities are here to stay.
  15. Standard memberadam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    Ceres
    Joined
    14 Oct '06
    Moves
    18375
    09 Oct '07 19:21
    Originally posted by whodey
    According to the Bible I thought that's what atheists were suppose to do? 😛
    uh?!
Back to Top