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Originally posted by twhiteheadAnd you continue to parade your ignorance of Christian theology.
Christianity is not very clear on what a person is judged on.
A basic flaw in Christian theology is the two concept of God being both forgiving and just. You cannot be both. Christianity teaches that all that is required to get to heaven is to have faith in Jesus as he has already 'paid for our sins'. (Even the concept of 'paying for sins' makes no sens ghts before death is totally unjust, as is being forgiven for any sin that you repent for.
First, the idea of 'sola fide' ("all that is required to get to heaven is to have faith in Jesus" ) is one that is limited to a relatively small proportion of the Christian population. The Catholic Church, easily the largest Christian church in the world (in fact, it has more adherents than any other religion), does not hold to that position. Nor do the Orthodox churches. Nor some Protestant denominations.
Second, the justice and mercy of God are reconciled through the crucifixion of Christ (who is also the Second Person of the Trinity).
Originally posted by lucifershammerTrue. But you also continue to parade Catholic Theology as the only "Christian Theology".
And you continue to parade your ignorance of Christian theology.
First, the idea of 'sola fide' ("all that is required to get to heaven is to have faith in Jesus" ) is one that is limited to a relatively small proportion of the Christian population. The Catholic Church, easily the largest Christian church in the world (in fact, it has more adherents than any other religion), does not hold to that position. Nor do the Orthodox churches. Nor some Protestant denominations.
I did get that wrong but even so the Catholic Church as far as I know does not believe in each person being punished exactly proportional to their sins but does believe that repentance wipes away crime. That is not justice.
Second, the justice and mercy of God are reconciled through the crucifixion of Christ (who is also the Second Person of the Trinity).
Please explain.
Originally posted by Hand of HecateDon't be ridiculous.
If a person leads a good life, committed to God and subsequently loses their cognitive faculties to the extent that they can no longer grasp the concept of God/Jesus/Salvation are they go to Hell for their lack of belief? Strictly speaking, and in accordance with the bible, the answer would be yes wouldn't it?
Originally posted by twhiteheadJustice is a subjective concept. It might not be justice by your standards, but it may well be justice by the Catholic God's standards.
I did get that wrong but even so the Catholic Church as far as I know does not believe in each person being punished exactly proportional to their sins but does believe that repentance wipes away crime. That is [b]not justice.[/b]
If the Bible contained only one passage in which a god said "I am just. I am righteous." I would have little to no incentive to believe so. But after observing through the pages of the Bible God's dealing with men and nations over thousands of years of history, I become convinced that God is indeed just and righteous. He can also be very merciful and wise.
Then there is the incarnation of God into the man Jesus Christ. As I observe His dealings with all kinds of people in different circumstances and His teachings, I also become convinced that God is just, righteous, merciful and wise.
This doesn't mean that I always understand God's ways. It does mean that by and large I have been persuaded for the most part that we are dealing with perfection in righteousness in God. Something in me testifies He will do righteously.
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Originally posted by twhiteheadOnly if God doesn't exist.
If justice or righteousness are defined as "whatever God says they are" then statements such as God is Just or God is righteous are meaningless.
I find the sentences "God exists" and "God does not exist" equally absurd. Don't ask me why, I can't tell you yet...
Originally posted by twhiteheadTrue. But you also continue to parade Catholic Theology as the only "Christian Theology".
True. But you also continue to parade Catholic Theology as the only "Christian Theology".
[b]First, the idea of 'sola fide' ("all that is required to get to heaven is to have faith in Jesus" ) is one that is limited to a relatively small proportion of the Christian population. The Catholic Church, easily the largest Christian church in the world (in fa ...[text shortened]... crucifixion of Christ (who is also the Second Person of the Trinity).
Please explain.[/b]
No -- I haven't done that. Where there are other Christian theological beliefs that disagree with the Catholic one, I always explicitly call out that it is a Catholic position.
I did get that wrong but even so the Catholic Church as far as I know does not believe in each person being punished exactly proportional to their sins but does believe that repentance wipes away crime. That is not justice.
Justice isn't the same thing as revenge; it's not about inflicting pain on someone as a response to pain they've caused. Justice is about reparation, making good the loss that one has caused. For instance, a thief may have to return stolen goods; people who cause damage to property may have to repair/replace the damaged parts. That is what justice is about.
Second, the justice and mercy of God are reconciled through the crucifixion of Christ (who is also the Second Person of the Trinity).
Please explain.
Essentially, reparation of the damage caused to the God-Man relationship is achieved through the death of Christ, the only man capable of making up for the offences against an infinitely Good being.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI'm not attempting to be ridiculous, this is a legitimate question. If you don't believe in God and accept Jesus as your savior you go to help.... clear cut right? Lose you cognative abilities and belief goes out the window, so does faith, so does empathy, so does any concept of spirituality.
Don't be ridiculous.
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou're closer than you think, but the problem lies not in Christian theology, but in the understanding of the same. As in other scenarios, the crux of the matter is imputation.
Christianity is not very clear on what a person is judged on.
A basic flaw in Christian theology is the two concept of God being both forgiving and just. You cannot be both. Christianity teaches that all that is required to get to heaven is to have faith in Jesus as he has already 'paid for our sins'. (Even the concept of 'paying for sins' makes no sens ...[text shortened]... ghts before death is totally unjust, as is being forgiven for any sin that you repent for.
Without the imputation of our sin to Christ, we remain condemned before God. Without the imputation of Christ's righteousness to us, we have no basis of standing before God. Whatever the righteousness of God approves (His own righteousness), the justice of God must bless. Whatever the righteousness of God rejects (the righteousness of man), the justice of God must condemn.
These two attributes of God (justice and mercy) are parts of the whole of His integrity: all must be viewed in relation to the others for any semblance of cohesiveness to be obtained. When viewed in isolation or without the balance of the entire fabric of His attributes, any individual aspect of His character will yield absurdity.
Originally posted by Hand of HecateWhile one may lose their faith, one never loses salvation. You never did any work (mental or otherwise) which yielded the result of salvation in the first place; the work is His therefore the glory is His. Since you did nothing to establish your salvation (non-meritorious faith does not count as work: no effort goes into it), you can do nothing to render it void.
I'm not attempting to be ridiculous, this is a legitimate question. If you don't believe in God and accept Jesus as your savior you go to help.... clear cut right? Lose you cognative abilities and belief goes out the window, so does faith, so does empathy, so does any concept of spirituality.
Your feelings of faithlessness notwithstanding, your future is as solid as Him--- not as shaky as you.