1. Standard memberKellyJay
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    16 Feb '14 22:30
    I've said this, I've had others say it to me.
    What I am starting to see in my opinion are people who now want to accept
    the sin, because they love the sinner.

    Thoughts?
    Kelly
  2. Joined
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    16 Feb '14 22:46
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I've said this, I've had others say it to me.
    What I am starting to see in my opinion are people who now want to accept
    the sin, because they love the sinner.

    Thoughts?
    Kelly
    sounds like you already have a direction you hope this will go. probably some gay sports star getting attention or something.
  3. Standard memberRajk999
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    17 Feb '14 00:14
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I've said this, I've had others say it to me.
    What I am starting to see in my opinion are people who now want to accept
    the sin, because they love the sinner.

    Thoughts?
    Kelly
    Im curious as to where in the Bible this is said or implied.
    Not at all saying its not there. 🙂
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    17 Feb '14 00:33
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    sounds like you already have a direction you hope this will go. probably some gay sports star getting attention or something.
    Take it anywhere you want, I asked for thoughts.
    Kelly
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    17 Feb '14 00:35
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Im curious as to where in the Bible this is said or implied.
    Not at all saying its not there. 🙂
    If I wanted to bounce scripture off everyone I'd quoted it.
    If you want to give your thoughts couched in scripture please do.
    Kelly
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    17 Feb '14 01:37
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Im curious as to where in the Bible this is said or implied.
    Not at all saying its not there. 🙂
    Maybe these?

    Matthew 5:43-44 ESV

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

    Romans 5:8 ESV

    But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
  7. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    17 Feb '14 04:48
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I've said this, I've had others say it to me.
    What I am starting to see in my opinion are people who now want to accept
    the sin, because they love the sinner.

    Thoughts?
    Kelly
    Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    17 Feb '14 12:14
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it [b]keeps no record of wrongs.
    [/b]
    'Keeps no record of wrongs' - Sounds like a line that conflicts with the 'book of life' idea in Revelation. Also if love keeps no records of wrongs and God keeps such a record, then it sounds like Paul is saying God does not really love us.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    17 Feb '14 12:16
    Originally posted by JS357
    Maybe these?

    Matthew 5:43-44 ESV

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

    Romans 5:8 ESV

    But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
    Not sure that does it. Matt passage is not applicable. The other one says that Christ died for us. Does not mean he loves sinners. Proof of that is Christ always warned sinners to repent and then refrain from sin.
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    17 Feb '14 14:58
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I've said this, I've had others say it to me.
    What I am starting to see in my opinion are people who now want to accept
    the sin, because they love the sinner.

    Thoughts?
    Kelly
    It seams to be the way Jesus looked at everyone while on earth.

    Certainly he loved the children of God, cured them, forgave them, died for them
  11. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    17 Feb '14 15:11
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    'Keeps no record of wrongs' - Sounds like a line that conflicts with the 'book of life' idea in Revelation. Also if love keeps no records of wrongs and God keeps such a record, then it sounds like Paul is saying God does not really love us.
    Or perhaps God is not feeling the emotion of love when he looks in the book of life for the name that is not there - but then, what to do with "God is love"?
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    17 Feb '14 15:211 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    What I am starting to see in my opinion are people who now want to accept
    the sin, because they love the sinner.
    Can you give an example? Are you possibly talking about:
    a) The acceptance of homosexuals?
    b) The argument that letting sinners suffer is not loving?
    c) something else?

    [edit] I am struggling to come up with anything else:
    d) I love adultery because I love my wife who does it? I love stealing because my brother whom I love is a thief?
    Nope, its not working for me.
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    17 Feb '14 17:12
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Can you give an example? Are you possibly talking about:
    a) The acceptance of homosexuals?
    b) The argument that letting sinners suffer is not loving?
    c) something else?

    [edit] I am struggling to come up with anything else:
    d) I love adultery because I love my wife who does it? I love stealing because my brother whom I love is a thief?
    Nope, its not working for me.
    I don't think Kelly was saying love the sin, he was saying accept the sin (and I think, accept its continuance.)

    Its a valid question even in a secular sense. How do we treat a person we love who is engaged in, and will continue to engage in, something we believe is seriously wrong for them to do? But I don't think the question is whether we love them, it is, what is the loving thing to do?
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    17 Feb '14 18:13
    Originally posted by JS357
    I don't think Kelly was saying love the sin, he was saying accept the sin (and I think, accept its continuance.)
    Your right, I missed that. Sorry Kelly.

    Its a valid question even in a secular sense. How do we treat a person we love who is engaged in, and will continue to engage in, something we believe is seriously wrong for them to do? But I don't think the question is whether we love them, it is, what is the loving thing to do?
    I think the answer lies in correctional legal systems as opposed to punishment based legal systems. So for example, Norway's system is more loving than the US.
    When it comes to the other thread on Godly punishment which might be what Kelly was getting at, then the question is what purpose does punishment after death serve?
    Similarly, in legal systems there are times when punishment does not serve a purpose and should be avoided. One example I came across in a tv series was an old lady who murdered her husband. They decided that she was unlikely to murder anyone else, so chose not to incarcerate her - in fact I don't think she was punished in any way.
  15. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    17 Feb '14 18:241 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    I don't think Kelly was saying love the sin, he was saying accept the sin (and I think, accept its continuance.)

    Its a valid question even in a secular sense. How do we treat a person we love who is engaged in, and will continue to engage in, something we believe is seriously wrong for them to do? But I don't think the question is whether we love them, it is, what is the loving thing to do?
    Also, 'accept' has different levels:

    - I don't accept that your behavior is morally right, though I can live with the fact that we disagree. It's your life.
    - I think your behavior is egregiously wrong and every time the topic comes up I feel obligated to vehemently disagree with you; however, I accept that it is not my place to interfere, despite my misgivings. But it troubles me greatly.
    - I think your behavior is so risky to yourself and/or others that I must try to stop you in some way. (Even here I may accept that there are certain ways of stopping you that are off-limits.)
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