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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member Darfius
    The Apologist
    13 Mar '05 02:14
    How many of you guys have someone you love? Family? Friends? Joe--and please know I'm not attempting to be tactless here--when you look at your daughter asleep at night, do you think the love you have for her could possibly be the result of evolution? Would you do anything for her? Same question for all.
  2. Donation kirksey957
    Outkast
    13 Mar '05 02:59
    Originally posted by Darfius
    How many of you guys have someone you love? Family? Friends? Joe--and please know I'm not attempting to be tactless here--when you look at your daughter asleep at night, do you think the love you have for her could possibly be the result of evolution? Would you do anything for her? Same question for all.
    I don't consider my love for them to be the result of evolution, but I have no problem with seeing the evolution of their personal, physical and spiritual growth or even the granduer of how they are the result of generations and generations beyond what I understand.
  3. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    13 Mar '05 03:09
    Originally posted by Darfius
    How many of you guys have someone you love? Family? Friends? Joe--and please know I'm not attempting to be tactless here--when you look at your daughter asleep at night, do you think the love you have for her could possibly be the result of evolution? Would you do anything for her? Same question for all.
    Mammals which care for their offspring have a much greater chance of passing on their genes to successive generations. Caring for you offspring could therefore be an evolutionary self-reinforcing process.

    But that doesn't explain the emotion itself. So evolution makes no value judgements about the nature of love, but merely explains how love might have become an evolutionary adaptation.
  4. Standard member Darfius
    The Apologist
    13 Mar '05 03:21
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Mammals which care for their offspring have a much greater chance of passing on their genes to successive generations. Caring for you offspring could therefore be an evolutionary self-reinforcing process.

    But that doesn't explain the emotion itself. So evolution makes no value judgements about the nature of love, but merely explains how love might have become an evolutionary adaptation.
    I think mammals caring for their offspring could better be described as "duty". Animals care about their offspring surviving, yes, but they could care less if their offspring is happy.
  5. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    13 Mar '05 03:30
    Originally posted by Darfius
    I think mammals caring for their offspring could better be described as "duty". Animals care about their offspring surviving, yes, but they could care less if their offspring is happy.
    I think it's a package deal. But wanting your offspring to be happy requires a knowledge of what happiness is, and presumably what it would take to achieve it. Hence, that would rule out nearly all species.
  6. Standard member Darfius
    The Apologist
    13 Mar '05 03:32
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I think it's a package deal. But wanting your offspring to be happy requires a knowledge of what happiness is, and presumably what it would take to achieve it. Hence, that would rule out nearly all species.
    I suppose that begs the question why we are so more intelligent than any other species on the planet. Surely if intelligence was so beneficial, more than one species would have achieved such a mutation by now?
  7. 13 Mar '05 03:36
    Originally posted by Darfius
    How many of you guys have someone you love?
    *raises hand*

    Absolutely.

    I'm not sure what evolution does or doesn't have to do it; I just know that I'm glad I've been both the giver and recipient of it.
  8. Standard member Darfius
    The Apologist
    13 Mar '05 03:37
    Originally posted by padawan60
    *raises hand*

    Absolutely.

    I'm not sure what evolution does or doesn't have to do it; I just know that I'm glad I've been both the giver and recipient of it.
    Well stated, sir.
  9. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    13 Mar '05 03:41
    Originally posted by Darfius
    I suppose that begs the question why we are so more intelligent than any other species on the planet. Surely if intelligence was so beneficial, more than one species would have achieved such a mutation by now?
    That's a good question. But as I'm not an evolutionary biologist by trade I do not have an answer for you. It may be that it's a path that simply isn't open to a majority of species. It may take a certain number of other evolutionary prerequisites before intelligence could be developed. For example, no matter how benificial it may be, a fruit fly will never develop what we call intelligence or self awareness. But I'm merely speculating.
  10. Standard member Phlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    13 Mar '05 03:49
    Originally posted by Darfius
    I suppose that begs the question why we are so more intelligent than any other species on the planet. Surely if intelligence was so beneficial, more than one species would have achieved such a mutation by now?
    This reminds me of a quote I can't find word for word from Douglas Adam's 'So Long and Thanks for all the Fish'. Went something like this:
    ----------
    Humans thought they were the smartest since they had jobs, factories, cars, government, religion, etc...

    Dolphins were the smartest since they did not have these things.
    ----------

    Something like that....

    P
  11. Standard member Joe Fist
    Troubador
    13 Mar '05 03:53
    Originally posted by Darfius
    How many of you guys have someone you love? Family? Friends? Joe--and please know I'm not attempting to be tactless here--when you look at your daughter asleep at night, do you think the love you have for her could possibly be the result of evolution? Would you do anything for her? Same question for all.
    Hi Darfius,

    I don't think you have meant to be tactless at all ever since you have been posting, although I admit I have been pretty tactless and for that, I apologize.

    Anyway, I have never advocated Evolution. I have never said the love for my daughter does not come from Christ either. It could, I suppose. I will grant you that you could be completely right about everything you have brought up. I think I have told you why I don't believe in Christ pretty completely and if you want me to repeat here again, I will.

    My belief is that I cannot comprehend God so I don't try to. I personally think it is mankind's folly to do so. So to answer your original question, I don't know where my love for my daughter comes from. If it is Christ, then I am screwed because despite whatever life I live, I am not and I am not planning to become a Christian.

    I think it is a disservice to her and myself to even answer the question of what I would do for her so I won't.
  12. Standard member Darfius
    The Apologist
    13 Mar '05 04:13
    I don't think you have meant to be tactless at all ever since you have been posting, although I admit I have been pretty tactless and for that, I apologize.

    Your gentlemanly behavior of late has given me more than enough incentive to forgive you, though I did long before. Besides, though I appreciate the sentiment, I have been too sarcastic for my tastes at times.

    Anyway, I have never advocated Evolution. I have never said the love for my daughter does not come from Christ either. It could, I suppose. I will grant you that you could be completely right about everything you have brought up. I think I have told you why I don't believe in Christ pretty completely and if you want me to repeat here again, I will.

    I admit I've forgotten exactly why, though that is due more to my horrible short term memory, rather than a lack of respect for your beliefs. If you wouldn't mind, I would appreciate if you would, though you I would just as soon understand if you told me to do some thread searching.

    My belief is that I cannot comprehend God so I don't try to. I personally think it is mankind's folly to do so. So to answer your original question, I don't know where my love for my daughter comes from. If it is Christ, then I am screwed because despite whatever life I live, I am not and I am not planning to become a Christian.

    Christians don't claim to comprehend God's mind. We claim to comprehend what He has deemed to show us. I don't care if you become a Christian in the church-going, "Bible thumping ;P" sense of the word, but I would love--and more importantly God would love--if you began a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Perhaps even prayed a short prayer asking for answers. I have no doubt it would be answered if asked sincerely and humbly.

    I think it is a disservice to her and myself to even answer the question of what I would do for her so I won't.

    I agree. I knew the answer, it was more to stress my point.
  13. Standard member Maustrauser
    Lord Chook
    13 Mar '05 04:16
    Originally posted by Darfius
    How many of you guys have someone you love? Family? Friends? Joe--and please know I'm not attempting to be tactless here--when you look at your daughter asleep at night, do you think the love you have for her could possibly be the result of evolution? Would you do anything for her? Same question for all.
    Ooh. I've got a gaggle of people I love and who love me in return. I am very lucky to be in such a position.

    I don't have any problem reconciling my love for my kith and kin with evolution. I'm with Rwingett on this one. Those mammals that nurture their offspring are likely to have their DNA survive. At what stage that evolved instinct became love, is unknowable. But that lack of knowledge does not mean that evolution was not the cause of what we observe today.

    Good question.
  14. Standard member Maustrauser
    Lord Chook
    13 Mar '05 04:21
    Originally posted by rwingett
    That's a good question. But as I'm not an evolutionary biologist by trade I do not have an answer for you. It may be that it's a path that simply isn't open to a majority of species. It may take a certain number of other evolutionary prerequisites before intelligence could be developed. For example, no matter how benificial it may be, a fruit fly will never develop what we call intelligence or self awareness. But I'm merely speculating.
    The answer to this question comes down to the definition of intelligence. Many organisms on this earth demonstrate intelligence, with some more advanced more than others. Which ever species is the most intellectually advanced will always ask, "Why are there not more organisms with intelligence the same as ours?"

    I suspect that the competitive nature of our DNA would not allow organisms as intelligent as us - we would fight them until one of our species was annihilated.
  15. Standard member Darfius
    The Apologist
    13 Mar '05 04:47
    The answer to this question comes down to the definition of intelligence. Many organisms on this earth demonstrate intelligence, with some more advanced more than others. Which ever species is the most intellectually advanced will always ask, "Why are there not more organisms with intelligence the same as ours?"

    Well to be fair, that's your opinion. The species that is the most intellecually advanced might universally agree that they are that way due to a higher being. And let us not kid ourselves, our intelligence is exponentially higher than our closest competitors. I wonder, were our ape ancestors smarter than present day or did the "homos" stumble upon and accelerate the intelligence building process?

    I suspect that the competitive nature of our DNA would not allow organisms as intelligent as us - we would fight them until one of our species was annihilated.

    Our DNA is competative? I wasn't aware it was sentient, much less competative. Are you saying natural selection must always manifest itself in aggression?