Originally posted by sonship"Now, I agree for the most part. But think now in terms of the addition of another, say, 50 to 70 years.
[quote]
Computers do what we tell them, if they didn't they would be useless. Now
sometimes we design them to do tasks that make them interact with us to
the point where they could fool us into thinking they are not a computer
but a person, that is not them becoming more of a person it is only our
awareness getting fooled not the computers getting more ...[text shortened]... of a New Machine".
(None of which I read entirely, except some of Future Shock)[/b]
The PC on your desk which you are now using, will look as obsolete as hand held washboard for washing cloths does today, as old fashion as a as a old fashion large box camera with its external flash bulb compared to the digital camera in your smart phone.
Maybe I overstate the case. But in the past there have been a few books about this technological explosion. "
If you know what an mechanical calculator is it is just a very fast abacus,
which will never spawn into a life no matter how fast you do your
calculations on it.
3 edits
Originally posted by KellyJay
If you know what an mechanical calculator is it is just a very fast abacus, which will never spawn into a life no matter how fast you do your
calculations on it.
I was a computer programmer, so I understand.
Tell me something. Why do you think they came up with the phrase Genetic Algorithm ?
If you ask me, I would say it reflects, at least on the part of some, that the process of Evolution might be duplicated in computer code.
Whether it can or not is another matter.
Whether Evolution on a macro level ever took place is another matter.
But I think the term Genetic Algorithm reflects someone/s hope that we will be able to write self correcting code that acts like the processes of natural selection.
I think it is an aspiration, at least.
Originally posted by sonshipComputers don't evolve as some think when they look at life, we createIf you know what an mechanical calculator is it is just a very fast abacus, which will never spawn into a life no matter how fast you do your
calculations on it.
I was a computer programmer, so I understand.
Tell me something. Why do you think they came up with the phrase [b]Genetic Algorithm ?
If you ask me, I wo ...[text shortened]... e that acts like the processes of natural selection.
I think it is an aspiration, at least.[/b]
each generation from start to finish, some times we don't use the same
methods to make them either. We do take what we have learned and
use it in the next generation, but they don't change over time, the longer
they are being USED by us to preform those things we want them to do.
If we didn't make the next generation then they would not improve over
time.
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Originally posted by sonshipBoth computer programs and chip design can be evolved using artificial selection.If you know what an mechanical calculator is it is just a very fast abacus, which will never spawn into a life no matter how fast you do your
calculations on it.
I was a computer programmer, so I understand.
Tell me something. Why do you think they came up with the phrase [b]Genetic Algorithm ?
If you ask me, I wo ...[text shortened]... e that acts like the processes of natural selection.
I think it is an aspiration, at least.[/b]
The resulting programs/circuits can solve problems [that they were evolved to solve]
without the programmers who created the genetic algorithm and the virtual environment
in which it evolved having the slightest clue how they work.
This is something that could be done ~ a decade ago... But it's only now with another 10+
years of computer power increasing that it's about to start approaching it's potential and
really making an impact.
In just about every large company that employs people to do paperwork or work with
computers there is a small team in the basement writing software bots that will do that
work and put those people out of work.
With currently available technology, ie that which is already working in labs, we can over the
next ~10~30 years we can make 30~50% of the workforce redundant.
And this will be structural unemployment, as in there is nothing 30~50% of the population can
do to get paid work.
I highly recommend this 15 min video as an introduction to the topic.
"Humans Need Not Apply" by CGP Grey:
&hd=1
Originally posted by googlefudgeYou seem to ignore the fact that it all begins with Intelligent Design. 😏
Both computer programs and chip design can be evolved using artificial selection.
The resulting programs/circuits can solve problems [that they were evolved to solve]
without the programmers who created the genetic algorithm and the virtual environment
in which it evolved having the slightest clue how they work.
This is something that could be ...[text shortened]... pic.
"Humans Need Not Apply" by CGP Grey:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU&hd=1
Originally posted by googlefudge"evolved to solve" is another way of saying that they were programmed by
Both computer programs and chip design can be evolved using artificial selection.
The resulting programs/circuits can solve problems [that they were evolved to solve]
without the programmers who created the genetic algorithm and the virtual environment
in which it evolved having the slightest clue how they work.
This is something that could be ...[text shortened]... pic.
"Humans Need Not Apply" by CGP Grey:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU&hd=1
us to do what it is they are doing. ID is at the heart of it all, even our AI is
the result of ID and the outcome at the root of it all will be our ID.
Originally posted by KellyJayI believe the computer programmers called it artificial intellegence. Perhaps those that believe in the theory of evolution call it artificial selection. That is the first I have heard that term used. It must be an atheist thing.
"evolved to solve" is another way of saying that they were programmed by
us to do what it is they are doing. ID is at the heart of it all, even our AI is
the result of ID and the outcome at the root of it all will be our ID.
Originally posted by RJHindsI can code a "if","then", "else" into a program and it will do what I want
I believe the computer programmers called it artificial intellegence. Perhaps those that believe in the theory of evolution call it artificial selection. That is the first I have heard that term used. It must be an atheist thing.
as I coded it. You could call that AS since the program is doing the
selection I suppose too. It doesn't matter to me if the coder is removed
from the code and the code modifies itself to do a job, if it was our ID that
set that up to happen then it was our ID that set it up to happen.
Originally posted by KellyJayThe dictionary defines 'artificial selection' as another name for 'selective breeding' therefore, I don't know what he means and so maybe your right.
I can code a "if","then", "else" into a program and it will do what I want
as I coded it. You could call that AS since the program is doing the
selection I suppose too. It doesn't matter to me if the coder is removed
from the code and the code modifies itself to do a job, if it was our ID that
set that up to happen then it was our ID that set it up to happen.
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Originally posted by KellyJay
"evolved to solve" is another way of saying that they were programmed by
us to do what it is they are doing. ID is at the heart of it all, even our AI is
the result of ID and the outcome at the root of it all will be our ID.
"evolved to solve" is another way of saying that they were programmed by
us to do what it is they are doing.
No, it really isn't.
The way this works is that the programmer creates a test to see if a program solves
the desired problem.
Then a whole bunch of randomly generated bits of code are tested, the bits of code that
come closest to solving the problem are selected and 'breed' with each other to create the
next generation. The next generation is tested, and the best of that generation is then
selected and bread to create the third generation... ect ect.
After ~tens of thousands of generations, you land up with a program that reliably solves the
problem. However at no point did a person write any of it's code, and nobody has any clue
how it works.
No human HAS written these programs, and no human COULD write these programs.
ID is at the heart of it all, even our AI is the result of ID and the outcome at the root
of it all will be our ID.
Well yes in the sense that this is evolution by artificial selection of computer programs
or chip design that we created for a purpose.
This in no way proves or indicates that evolution by natural selection, as happens in nature,
includes any intelligent designer. We are copying [and improving on] methods and techniques
we find in nature. But the fact that we can artificially replicate something doesn't make the
original something artificial, or intelligently designed.
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Originally posted by RJHindsYou have utterly no clue about what you are talking about.
I believe the computer programmers called it artificial intellegence. Perhaps those that believe in the theory of evolution call it artificial selection. That is the first I have heard that term used. It must be an atheist thing.
Originally posted by sonhouse
That may be so, since we already created a god in our image, so a machine would be next.
That may be so, since we already created a god in our image, so a machine would be next.
I will open a thread on this subject, I think.
"God created in man's image ?"
You can give your thoughts there.
1 edit
Originally posted by googlefudgeThe way it works is a programmer setups a test and a means to solve it,"evolved to solve" is another way of saying that they were programmed by
us to do what it is they are doing.
No, it really isn't.
The way this works [hidden] [in very simple terms] [/hidden] is that the programmer creates a test to see if a program solves
the desired problem.
Then a whole bunch of randomly generated bits of code ...[text shortened]... replicate something doesn't make the
original something artificial, or intelligently designed.
you really want to take programmers out of the equation? As soon as a
human designs the process ID is now part of the process. The program
is also loaded into a piece of equipment designed to make it all work!
Random bits of code are tested, but they are random bits of code! You want
random there are a lot of keys on the keyboard that can produce any
number of letters upper and lower case, numbers, and a host of other
things, throw those out there without the rules required to make piece of
code work! See how long before the program falls apart instead of fixing
anything!
Your argument for this is no different than the one in I believe the Blind
watch maker, I believe he talked about a lock and finding a way to open it
give it enough time and chances you'll get the lock open through random
chances. The trouble with that it is it requires that the lock must have a
set numbers required to open it! If life's beginning required ID so that no
random chances could do it, than all the random numbers would never
open it, they would always fail unless all the proper steps were taken
everywhere needed to support life.