1. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    04 Oct '15 18:45
    It scares me to think i might not have met my wife. So many variables could have prevented us from meeting, from falling in love. I'm not even certain i would still exist if our paths hadn't crossed.

    Is this the closest an atheist can ever get to religious love? (I guess you can include 'parental love', although i have no first hand experience of that).
  2. Joined
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    04 Oct '15 18:51
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    It scares me to think i might not have met my wife. So many variables could have prevented us from meeting, from falling in love. I'm not even certain i would still exist if our paths hadn't crossed.

    Is this the closest an atheist can ever get to religious love? (I guess you can include 'parental love', although i have no first hand experience of that).
    I hope you will take this as intended.

    YouTube
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Oct '15 19:22
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    It scares me to think i might not have met my wife. So many variables could have prevented us from meeting, from falling in love. I'm not even certain i would still exist if our paths hadn't crossed.

    Is this the closest an atheist can ever get to religious love? (I guess you can include 'parental love', although i have no first hand experience of that).
    You say there are so many variables that could have kept you from meeting. But you *did* meet anyways. Do you believe in "destiny"? I'm convinced that there are many, many "love stories" out there that could be made into a book or movie. There are "epic romances" all around us. I'm not trying to downplay yours, but all I'm saying is that everyday life contains so many epic tales, there will never be a shortage of material for the scribes.

    Anyways, back to the purpose I wrote this reply. Do you think that perhaps you two were somehow "destined" to meet? That if it hadn't occurred just the way it did, it would have some other way?
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    04 Oct '15 19:27
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    It scares me to think i might not have met my wife. So many variables could have prevented us from meeting, from falling in love. I'm not even certain i would still exist if our paths hadn't crossed.

    Is this the closest an atheist can ever get to religious love? (I guess you can include 'parental love', although i have no first hand experience of that).
    God is love.

    Love is our connection to the unseen world of God.

    It does not really exist in the material world. You can't see it, measure it, etc. However, it is so real to us that it is more important than material things like eating and breathing.
  5. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    04 Oct '15 19:42
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    I hope you will take this as intended.

    [youtube]IsKVjfkipt0[/youtube]
    🙂 Yes, seen that before, very funny. (And apt).
  6. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    04 Oct '15 19:54
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    You say there are so many variables that could have kept you from meeting. But you *did* meet anyways. Do you believe in "destiny"? I'm convinced that there are many, many "love stories" out there that could be made into a book or movie. There are "epic romances" all around us. I'm not trying to downplay yours, but all I'm saying is that everyday life ...[text shortened]... estined" to meet? That if it hadn't occurred just the way it did, it would have some other way?
    Napoleon believed in a 'star of destiny' that governed his life. Alas, i do not share his belief and see only random chance and coincidence. It is this lack of belief in destiny that makes me eternally grateful that 'chance' had me meet my wife. For example, the day we met i nearly delayed leaving home to eat a chocolate bar nicely chilled in the fridge. Had i done so i would have got a different bus and then a different train,...and would never have met her. Indeed, my life was not governed by destiny, it was governed by my willpower to delay eating a kit-kat.
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Oct '15 20:38
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Napoleon believed in a 'star of destiny' that governed his life. Alas, i do not share his belief and see only random chance and coincidence. It is this lack of belief in destiny that makes me eternally grateful that 'chance' had me meet my wife. For example, the day we met i nearly delayed leaving home to eat a chocolate bar nicely chilled in the fri ...[text shortened]... my life was not governed by destiny, it was governed by my willpower to delay eating a kit-kat.
    So you do not think that if chance had stepped the other way, that you two might have met somewhere else, under other circumstances? It is thought by some that 'soulmates' somehow find each other, even through several past lives. What do you think of this idea?
  8. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    04 Oct '15 21:06
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    So you do not think that if chance had stepped the other way, that you two might have met somewhere else, under other circumstances? It is thought by some that 'soulmates' somehow find each other, even through several past lives. What do you think of this idea?
    It is a nice idea, but i'm not sure i have it in me to believe in such things as soulmates (in the 'predestined to meet' sense). 5 things i would very much like to believe in, but am unable to due to an innate requirement of tangible evidence:

    1. A supreme being
    2. Soulmates
    3. Alien life
    4. Bigfoot
    5. That Disney will make a success of the Star Wars franchise.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Oct '15 21:43
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    It is a nice idea, but i'm not sure i have it in me to believe in such things as soulmates (in the 'predestined to meet' sense). 5 things i would very much like to believe in, but am unable to due to an innate requirement of tangible evidence:

    1. A supreme being
    2. Soulmates
    3. Alien life
    4. Bigfoot
    5. That Disney will make a success of the Star Wars franchise.
    But come on, man.

    Love isn't entirely "logical", either. At least you didn't ask her for "evidence of her claim". 🙂
  10. Zugzwang
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    04 Oct '15 23:011 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne to Ghost of a Duke
    So you do not think that if chance had stepped the other way, that you two might have met somewhere else, under other circumstances? It is thought by some that 'soulmates' somehow find each other, even through several past lives. What do you think of this idea?
    I think that many people like to rationalize favourable coincidences as being touched
    by the hand of fate. I also think it's easier for people to believe that God's taking a
    benign interest in their lives rather than that God's working maliciously to thwart them.

    I already have shared this story (which did not originate with me), but here it goes again:
    GM Alexander Morozevich (reportedly) has a mystical outlook on life. He supposedly
    does not believe in making an appointment to meet a woman at a specific time for a
    date because he feels that if she's destined to become his 'soulmate', she will find a
    way to show up in his life anyway. It seems like he feels that falling in love is a matter
    of destiny or karma or something predetermined by God.

    (Future GM) Irina Krush was, by her own account, a 'loner' in her American high school.
    She was determined to become a professional chess player, which made her different
    from other American girls. She has said that she had no friends and presumably never
    went out on any dates in high school. Instead, Irina Krush (a native Russian speaker)
    began a passionate internet chess relationship (which turned to romance) with the older
    Alexander Morozevich (in Moscow), whom she apparently never had met in person.
    After several months of such 'courtship', despite her parents' objections, Irina Krush
    packed her bags and went to live with Alexander Morozevich in Moscow. It may have
    been the first serious romance for both of them. Unaccustomed to having to satisfy
    the needs of a young woman, Alexander Morozevich felt distracted and was unhappy
    to find that his chess rating was rapidly decreasing. Whether or not it was fair for him
    to blame Irina's presence for it, Alexander Morozevich decided that she had to leave.
    And so Irina Krush returned to the USA as a presumably sadder yet wiser young woman.
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    04 Oct '15 23:151 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    God is love.

    Love is our connection to the unseen world of God.
    If God is love, and love is our connection to the unseen world of God, then it follows that:

    Love is our connection to the unseen world of love.

    Which sounds like circular reasoning best fitted on a fridge magnet.
  12. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    05 Oct '15 07:11
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    But come on, man.

    Love isn't entirely "logical", either. At least you didn't ask her for "evidence of her claim". 🙂
    That's true. 🙂
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    05 Oct '15 21:08
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    It scares me to think i might not have met my wife. So many variables could have prevented us from meeting, from falling in love. I'm not even certain i would still exist if our paths hadn't crossed.

    Is this the closest an atheist can ever get to religious love? (I guess you can include 'parental love', although i have no first hand experience of that).
    In English there is just one word, to the ancient Greeks there were many kinds of love, here are the four I know of, romantic love (eros), brotherly love (philia), love based on principle (agape) and family love (storge). I suspect that your love for your wife is a mixture of all of these aspects.
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    05 Oct '15 21:281 edit
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    It scares me to think i might not have met my wife. So many variables could have prevented us from meeting, from falling in love. I'm not even certain i would still exist if our paths hadn't crossed.

    Is this the closest an atheist can ever get to religious love? (I guess you can include 'parental love', although i have no first hand experience of that).
    I feel the same about my wife, in fact I was only thinking about this topic this morning. I've been a little philosophical since the funeral last Friday; thinking about past, present and future and how the decisions I made way back then have influenced the course of my life, and similarly how what I decide now will influence the future. Kind of obvious of course, but when you stop and think about it, fate, coincidence, God ... Who plays a part.
  15. Joined
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    05 Oct '15 21:29
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    In English there is just one word, to the ancient Greeks there were many kinds of love, here are the four I know of, romantic love (eros), brotherly love (philia), love based on principle (agape) and family love (storge). I suspect that your love for your wife is a mixture of all of these aspects.
    Interesting; what would be an example of love based on principle?
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