definition: materialism, the ideology that there is no reality other than that which is material.
manifestation: self absorption, narcissism, desire for immediate gratification, possessions more important than personal development, tangible objects used to signify success and influence other values, greed is intrinsically good and self pampering therapeutic.
evaluation: hugely detrimental to self and society and anti Biblical
http://www.acrwebsite.org/search/view-conference-proceedings.aspx?Id=12206
Originally posted by robbie carrobieScientific materialism and cultural materialism, as I'm sure you know, are two separate things. Unless you can demonstrate how the former leads to the latter (which isn't necessarily a given), then I'm afraid your post isn't going to be very productive.
definition: materialism, the ideology that there is no reality other than that which is material.
manifestation: self absorption, narcissism, desire for immediate gratification, possessions more important than personal development, tangible objects used to signify success and influence other values, greed is intrinsically good and self pampering t ...[text shortened]... and anti Biblical
http://www.acrwebsite.org/search/view-conference-proceedings.aspx?Id=12206
11 Jul 13
Originally posted by rwingettthey are intrinsically linked in the same way that abiogenesis and evolution are linked, both have as their basis a materialistic philosophy, irrespective of what little box they are pigeon holed into. Clearly scientific materialism has not only influenced influenced cultural materialism it has powered it, we no longer think in moral terms, evil does not exist, its simply the manifestation of an unfortunate genetic disposition (see chrise4's comments in debates about paedophiles), same as sexuality, much erroneous and in many instances pseudo-scientific claims with regard to predisposition and causation have effectively changed the moral and cultural perception with regard to homosexuality. I dont think its very difficult to provide other instances where scientific materialism has profoundly influenced common culture.
Scientific materialism and cultural materialism, as I'm sure you know, are two separate things. Unless you can demonstrate how the former leads to the latter (which isn't necessarily a given), then I'm afraid your post isn't going to be very productive.
11 Jul 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIs this another attempt at the 'B & Q' doctrine which failed so miserably last time?
they are intrinsically linked in the same way that abiogenesis and evolution are linked, both have as their basis a materialistic philosophy, irrespective of what little box they are pigeon holed into. Clearly scientific materialism has not only influenced influenced cultural materialism it has powered it, we no longer think in moral terms, evil doe ...[text shortened]... provide other instances where scientific materialism has profoundly influenced common culture.
11 Jul 13
Originally posted by Proper Knobno retrospective trolling, i am perfectly aware of past failures and do not pretend to be able to prove anything, simply to illustrate and draw inferences from observations so as to give life to my position, if it turns out to be Frankensteins monster and seeks to devour me, then so be it!
Is this another attempt at the 'B & Q' doctrine which failed so miserably last time?
as a body builder I would be most interested to hear your confessions of self obsession, is it not altogether rather narcissistic?
11 Jul 13
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhilst I would agree with your general premise that rampant materialism is not a good thing, I really don’t understand how you are linking your definition and conclusions to the quoted reference, which as far as I can see with a skim read (I may have missed it), makes no reference to Biblical principles or concepts and in fact does not even state that materialism is "detrimental", let alone "hugely detrimental" to the human condition.
definition: materialism, the ideology that there is no reality other than that which is material.
manifestation: self absorption, narcissism, desire for immediate gratification, possessions more important than personal development, tangible objects used to signify success and influence other values, greed is intrinsically good and self pampering t ...[text shortened]... and anti Biblical
http://www.acrwebsite.org/search/view-conference-proceedings.aspx?Id=12206
Furthermore, the study itself appears to be a shallow exploration of the impacts of materialism, focusing its outcomes on superficial behaviors without exploring the social, economic or spiritual impact at all. I'm sure that if you tried you find could much deeper and more insightful work on the net.
11 Jul 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIt just so happens that I agree with your basic premise, that scientific materialism DOES lead inexorably toward cultural materialism. But I think your purported links between the two are shoddy and your conclusions questionable.
they are intrinsically linked in the same way that abiogenesis and evolution are linked, both have as their basis a materialistic philosophy, irrespective of what little box they are pigeon holed into. Clearly scientific materialism has not only influenced influenced cultural materialism it has powered it, we no longer think in moral terms, evil doe ...[text shortened]... provide other instances where scientific materialism has profoundly influenced common culture.
11 Jul 13
Originally posted by rwingettgee dude i dunno if i can respect that.
It just so happens that I agree with your basic premise, that scientific materialism DOES lead inexorably toward cultural materialism. But I think your purported links between the two are shoddy and your conclusions questionable.
11 Jul 13
Originally posted by divegeesteryou don't believe in me any more, how sad. I cannot respect your claims, not after you admitted speed reading your way through it and then proffering an opinion based upon that fleeting glimpse with the most outlandish claims.
Whilst I would agree with your general premise that rampant materialism is not a good thing, I really don’t understand how you are linking your definition and conclusions to the quoted reference, which as far as I can see with a skim read (I may have missed it), makes no reference to Biblical principles or concepts and in fact does not even state that ma ...[text shortened]... I'm sure that if you tried you find could much deeper and more insightful work on the net.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRetrospective trolling? I call it holding you to account for what you've said in the past, it stops you making it up as you go along. Which is something you are quite partial to.
no retrospective trolling, i am perfectly aware of past failures and do not pretend to be able to prove anything, simply to illustrate and draw inferences from observations so as to give life to my position, if it turns out to be Frankensteins monster and seeks to devour me, then so be it!
as a body builder I would be most interested to hear your confessions of self obsession, is it not altogether rather narcissistic?
When have I ever said I'm a bodybuilder? You're making it up Rob.
Just clarify for us, are you offering your 'self certified opinion' here, or can you back your views up with empirical data?
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11 Jul 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobiedo you think the less scientifically advanced a society is the more moral they are?
they are intrinsically linked in the same way that abiogenesis and evolution are linked, both have as their basis a materialistic philosophy, irrespective of what little box they are pigeon holed into. Clearly scientific materialism has not only influenced influenced cultural materialism it has powered it, we no longer think in moral terms, evil doe ...[text shortened]... provide other instances where scientific materialism has profoundly influenced common culture.
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11 Jul 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe ironic thing is that you may not see how materialism has so fixed itself in Jehovah's Witness theology.
definition: materialism, the ideology that there is no reality other than that which is material.
manifestation: self absorption, narcissism, desire for immediate gratification, possessions more important than personal development, tangible objects used to signify success and influence other values, greed is intrinsically good and self pampering t ...[text shortened]... and anti Biblical
http://www.acrwebsite.org/search/view-conference-proceedings.aspx?Id=12206
The Gospel speaks of the indwelling of Christ as the life giving Spirit. But you scoff and don't want to hear anything about it.
You want to hear about a garden of Eden like earthly kingdom with nice animals and nice trees and a lot of beautiful material things.
You might consider how much materialism hinders you from appreciating some crucial points of the New Testament salvation.
You continually gravitate towards an outward material kingdom with its outward strong government. If I mention the matter of God dispensing His life and nature into the saved, you have no ear for it. Instead you want to know all about the blessed physical earth in the kingdom.
11 Jul 13
Originally posted by Proper Knobyou do weight training, do you not, why not do cardio instead, it has the same result ?
Retrospective trolling? I call it holding you to account for what you've said in the past, it stops you making it up as you go along. Which is something you are quite partial to.
When have I ever said I'm a bodybuilder? You're making it up Rob.
Just clarify for us, are you offering your 'self certified opinion' here, or can you back your views up with empirical data?
11 Jul 13
Originally posted by stellspalfiescience and its relationship with metaphysics is interesting, but it is not essentially the remit of this thread, to say however that science has not influenced morality is delusional, of course it has, for as soon as Darwin proposed his theory, the dye was cast, for a material explanation for the diversity for life was now proffered, a theory without the necessity for morality.
do you think the less scientifically advanced a society is the more moral they are?