1. Account suspended
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    11 Jul '13 12:361 edit
    definition: materialism, the ideology that there is no reality other than that which is material.

    manifestation: self absorption, narcissism, desire for immediate gratification, possessions more important than personal development, tangible objects used to signify success and influence other values, greed is intrinsically good and self pampering therapeutic.

    evaluation: hugely detrimental to self and society and anti Biblical

    http://www.acrwebsite.org/search/view-conference-proceedings.aspx?Id=12206
  2. Donationrwingett
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    11 Jul '13 12:521 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    definition: materialism, the ideology that there is no reality other than that which is material.

    manifestation: self absorption, narcissism, desire for immediate gratification, possessions more important than personal development, tangible objects used to signify success and influence other values, greed is intrinsically good and self pampering t ...[text shortened]... and anti Biblical

    http://www.acrwebsite.org/search/view-conference-proceedings.aspx?Id=12206
    Scientific materialism and cultural materialism, as I'm sure you know, are two separate things. Unless you can demonstrate how the former leads to the latter (which isn't necessarily a given), then I'm afraid your post isn't going to be very productive.
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    11 Jul '13 13:05
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Scientific materialism and cultural materialism, as I'm sure you know, are two separate things. Unless you can demonstrate how the former leads to the latter (which isn't necessarily a given), then I'm afraid your post isn't going to be very productive.
    they are intrinsically linked in the same way that abiogenesis and evolution are linked, both have as their basis a materialistic philosophy, irrespective of what little box they are pigeon holed into. Clearly scientific materialism has not only influenced influenced cultural materialism it has powered it, we no longer think in moral terms, evil does not exist, its simply the manifestation of an unfortunate genetic disposition (see chrise4's comments in debates about paedophiles), same as sexuality, much erroneous and in many instances pseudo-scientific claims with regard to predisposition and causation have effectively changed the moral and cultural perception with regard to homosexuality. I dont think its very difficult to provide other instances where scientific materialism has profoundly influenced common culture.
  4. SubscriberProper Knob
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    11 Jul '13 13:07
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    they are intrinsically linked in the same way that abiogenesis and evolution are linked, both have as their basis a materialistic philosophy, irrespective of what little box they are pigeon holed into. Clearly scientific materialism has not only influenced influenced cultural materialism it has powered it, we no longer think in moral terms, evil doe ...[text shortened]... provide other instances where scientific materialism has profoundly influenced common culture.
    Is this another attempt at the 'B & Q' doctrine which failed so miserably last time?
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    11 Jul '13 13:24
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    Is this another attempt at the 'B & Q' doctrine which failed so miserably last time?
    no retrospective trolling, i am perfectly aware of past failures and do not pretend to be able to prove anything, simply to illustrate and draw inferences from observations so as to give life to my position, if it turns out to be Frankensteins monster and seeks to devour me, then so be it!

    as a body builder I would be most interested to hear your confessions of self obsession, is it not altogether rather narcissistic?
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    11 Jul '13 13:27
    for a discussion on whether science is or should be neutral, please see this link,

    http://webware.princeton.edu/vanfraas/mss/SciencMat.htm
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    11 Jul '13 13:342 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    definition: materialism, the ideology that there is no reality other than that which is material.

    manifestation: self absorption, narcissism, desire for immediate gratification, possessions more important than personal development, tangible objects used to signify success and influence other values, greed is intrinsically good and self pampering t ...[text shortened]... and anti Biblical

    http://www.acrwebsite.org/search/view-conference-proceedings.aspx?Id=12206
    Whilst I would agree with your general premise that rampant materialism is not a good thing, I really don’t understand how you are linking your definition and conclusions to the quoted reference, which as far as I can see with a skim read (I may have missed it), makes no reference to Biblical principles or concepts and in fact does not even state that materialism is "detrimental", let alone "hugely detrimental" to the human condition.

    Furthermore, the study itself appears to be a shallow exploration of the impacts of materialism, focusing its outcomes on superficial behaviors without exploring the social, economic or spiritual impact at all. I'm sure that if you tried you find could much deeper and more insightful work on the net.
  8. Donationrwingett
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    11 Jul '13 13:39
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    they are intrinsically linked in the same way that abiogenesis and evolution are linked, both have as their basis a materialistic philosophy, irrespective of what little box they are pigeon holed into. Clearly scientific materialism has not only influenced influenced cultural materialism it has powered it, we no longer think in moral terms, evil doe ...[text shortened]... provide other instances where scientific materialism has profoundly influenced common culture.
    It just so happens that I agree with your basic premise, that scientific materialism DOES lead inexorably toward cultural materialism. But I think your purported links between the two are shoddy and your conclusions questionable.
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    11 Jul '13 13:47
    Originally posted by rwingett
    It just so happens that I agree with your basic premise, that scientific materialism DOES lead inexorably toward cultural materialism. But I think your purported links between the two are shoddy and your conclusions questionable.
    gee dude i dunno if i can respect that.
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    11 Jul '13 13:49
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Whilst I would agree with your general premise that rampant materialism is not a good thing, I really don’t understand how you are linking your definition and conclusions to the quoted reference, which as far as I can see with a skim read (I may have missed it), makes no reference to Biblical principles or concepts and in fact does not even state that ma ...[text shortened]... I'm sure that if you tried you find could much deeper and more insightful work on the net.
    you don't believe in me any more, how sad. I cannot respect your claims, not after you admitted speed reading your way through it and then proffering an opinion based upon that fleeting glimpse with the most outlandish claims.
  11. SubscriberProper Knob
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    11 Jul '13 13:521 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    no retrospective trolling, i am perfectly aware of past failures and do not pretend to be able to prove anything, simply to illustrate and draw inferences from observations so as to give life to my position, if it turns out to be Frankensteins monster and seeks to devour me, then so be it!

    as a body builder I would be most interested to hear your confessions of self obsession, is it not altogether rather narcissistic?
    Retrospective trolling? I call it holding you to account for what you've said in the past, it stops you making it up as you go along. Which is something you are quite partial to.

    When have I ever said I'm a bodybuilder? You're making it up Rob.

    Just clarify for us, are you offering your 'self certified opinion' here, or can you back your views up with empirical data?
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    11 Jul '13 13:56
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    they are intrinsically linked in the same way that abiogenesis and evolution are linked, both have as their basis a materialistic philosophy, irrespective of what little box they are pigeon holed into. Clearly scientific materialism has not only influenced influenced cultural materialism it has powered it, we no longer think in moral terms, evil doe ...[text shortened]... provide other instances where scientific materialism has profoundly influenced common culture.
    do you think the less scientifically advanced a society is the more moral they are?
  13. Standard membersonshiponline
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    11 Jul '13 14:25
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    definition: materialism, the ideology that there is no reality other than that which is material.

    manifestation: self absorption, narcissism, desire for immediate gratification, possessions more important than personal development, tangible objects used to signify success and influence other values, greed is intrinsically good and self pampering t ...[text shortened]... and anti Biblical

    http://www.acrwebsite.org/search/view-conference-proceedings.aspx?Id=12206
    The ironic thing is that you may not see how materialism has so fixed itself in Jehovah's Witness theology.

    The Gospel speaks of the indwelling of Christ as the life giving Spirit. But you scoff and don't want to hear anything about it.

    You want to hear about a garden of Eden like earthly kingdom with nice animals and nice trees and a lot of beautiful material things.

    You might consider how much materialism hinders you from appreciating some crucial points of the New Testament salvation.

    You continually gravitate towards an outward material kingdom with its outward strong government. If I mention the matter of God dispensing His life and nature into the saved, you have no ear for it. Instead you want to know all about the blessed physical earth in the kingdom.
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    11 Jul '13 15:47
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    Retrospective trolling? I call it holding you to account for what you've said in the past, it stops you making it up as you go along. Which is something you are quite partial to.

    When have I ever said I'm a bodybuilder? You're making it up Rob.

    Just clarify for us, are you offering your 'self certified opinion' here, or can you back your views up with empirical data?
    you do weight training, do you not, why not do cardio instead, it has the same result ?
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    11 Jul '13 15:52
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    do you think the less scientifically advanced a society is the more moral they are?
    science and its relationship with metaphysics is interesting, but it is not essentially the remit of this thread, to say however that science has not influenced morality is delusional, of course it has, for as soon as Darwin proposed his theory, the dye was cast, for a material explanation for the diversity for life was now proffered, a theory without the necessity for morality.
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