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Originally posted by sonship
God in Christ could forgive man because -
[b] " .. God in Christ was reconciling the world to Himself, not accounting their offenses to them ..." (2 Cor. 5:19)
Concerning God in Christ the New Testament does not say that one third of God was in Christ. It says that all the fullness of the Godhead dwelt bodily in Christ.
[quo ...[text shortened]... 5-37[/b] He speaks of His pre-incarnation and relationship to Israel in the Old Testament times.[/b]It is God in Christ in me... Am I God?
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1 edit
Originally posted by checkbaiter
It is God in Christ in me... Am I God?
It is God in Christ in me... Am I God?
The saved people in whom the Triune God lives are becoming God as the Body of Christ. But they are not becoming God as the Head of that Body.
The entire Body of redeemed and regenerated human beings are becoming God as His living temple and as Christ's Body and as Christ's Wife. In God's communicable attributes they are becoming God mingled with man.
In His non-communicable attributes such as His Fatherhood and Godhead they are not becoming God. So the saints will never be - creators of universes, or objects of worship, or ominscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent. But "we will be like Him for we will see Him as He is." (1 John 3:2)
Even now the regenerated Christians are "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Pet.1:4)
But the saints are becoming God mingled with man for an eternal organic union of His divinity blended with humanity.
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15 Jul 16
Originally posted by sonshipYes, you have been trained in your responses well.It is God in Christ in me... Am I God?
The saved people in whom the Triune God lives are becoming God as the Body of Christ. But they are not becoming God as the Head of that Body.
The entire Body of redeemed and regenerated human beings are becoming God as His living temple and as Christ's Body and as Christ's Wife. In God's communic ...[text shortened]... ecoming God mingled with man for an eternal organic union of His divinity blended with humanity.
Are you ignoring why God had to be given authority by God?
How God had to grow in wisdom? How God prayed to God in the garden?
How God died but then raised himself from the dead?
But most of all , how you can identify with a godman who always was?
15 Jul 16
Originally posted by checkbaiterYou are asking a robot to reason.
Yes, you have been trained in your responses well.
Are you ignoring why God had to be given authority by God?
How God had to grow in wisdom? How God prayed to God in the garden?
How God died but then raised himself from the dead?
But most of all , how you can identify with a godman who always was?
His answer is along the lines ...That is why the Triune God is called mysterious 😀
'Mysterious' is another way to say I cannot explain what the hell I believe.
But I believe it anyway. 😀
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6 edits
Originally posted by checkbaiterI am glad that instead of sending me only long articles you yourself are writing something. Some linking and quoting is ok. I do it.
[b]Yes, you have been trained in your responses well.
Are you ignoring why God had to be given authority by God?
I am not ignoring aspects of the entire revelation of the Bible. I may not be speaking to all of them in one short post.
As a man, standing on the position of man, God incarnate as the man Jesus was under the authority of the Father. No I am not "ignoring" that God incarnate was "obedient unto death, and that the death of a cross" (Phil. 2:8)
"Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God a treasure to be grasped. But emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, becoming in the likeness of men;
And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of a cross.
Therefore also God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
And every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Phil. 2:6-11)
He did not grasp at something He had NOT.
He did not grasp at something He HAD - being equal with God.
He emptied Himself only of the splendor and glory but not of being God.
In His incarnation He took the form instead of a slave.
He took the fashion of a man and became obedient even unto crucifixion.
God tells that He is the One to whom every knee will bow and every tongue shall confess:
" I have sworn by Myself; A word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness And will not return,
That every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall swear. It shall be said of Me, Only in Jehovah is there righteousness and strength. To Him shall men come, And all those who are burning in anger against Him shall be ashamed." (Isaiah 45:23,24)
How God had to grow in wisdom?
He became a man. God can express Himself as a man who grows in wisdom.
God's eternal purpose is to be mingled with man.
How God prayed to God in the garden?
God can express Himself as a praying man in a garden.
God's eternal purpose is to be incorporated and blended with His creature man.
How God died but then raised himself from the dead?
God can express Himself as a man who dies a redemptive death for our sins and is raised from the dead.
I have shown on this Forum before how Jehovah God sends Jehovah God in the book of Zechariah. God is both the Sender and the One Sent in Zechariah 2:8-11)
Though I have been here for some years I have never seen anyone be able to refute that Zechariah 2:8-11 mysteriously proves that God sent God and God was sent BY God.
But most of all , how you can identify with a godman who always was?
As a MAN ... He was not always. That is the meaning of incarnation - "And the Word became flesh".
The term I use is usually God-man. Captilize God there because Jesus is THE God who became man.
New Jerusalem is God dispensed into man with THE God-man as its center.
He is God by way of incarnation and resurrection.
The saved are becoming God as His enlargement through His dispensing His life into them. The saved are becoming God mingled with man through Christ's full salvation.
Why do you think God created a universe to begin with? It is in order that He may dispense God into man for an eternal mingling of divinity and humanity. God builds Himself into man and builds man into Himself.
What did you think? Did you think God merely wants to forgive people and take them to a happy place ?
15 Jul 16
Originally posted by sonshipYou think saying Jesus, the Son of God = God, His Father, will score you brownie points? Do you think Jesus falls for flattery?
I am glad that instead of sending me only long articles you yourself are writing something. Some linking and quoting is ok. I do it.
Are you ignoring why God had to be given authority by God?
I am not ignoring aspects of the entire revelation of the Bible. I may not be speaking to all of them in one short post.
As a man, standing o ...[text shortened]... did you think? Did you think God merely wants to forgive people and take them to a happy place ?
Jesus and Paul both said in clear unambiguous language that God IS GREATER THAN Jesus.
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3 edits
How God died but then raised himself from the dead?
I think the point is that death is meaningless to God. He cannot die.
Then you will press me "Then how could Jesus be God incarnate then ?"
I don't know. But I do know that He said that He had the authority to lay down His life and to take it up again.
" For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it away from Me, but I lay it down of Myself.
I have the authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again.This commandment I received from My Father." (John 10:17,18)
Christ did not say He did NOT have the authority to take up His life again but He HAD the authority to do so.
So this is as difficult to explain as Zechariah 2:8-11 - a revelation of God the Sender and God the Sent One.
So He has authority to take up His life again AND He said that in three days He would raise up the temple of His human body.
" Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (v.19)
"But He spoke of the temple of His body." (v.21) (John 2:19,21)
The Bible says that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead, on one hand. On the other hand it also says that He have authority to take up His life again and that in three days He would raise up the temple of His body again.
Jesus is God become a man.
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What did you think? Did you think God merely wants to forgive people and take them to a happy place ?
No, God wants to share His love and be loved in return. That is why He gave us the gift of holy spirit and the Lord Jesus Christ, along with Apostles, pastors, Teachers, etc., so we could grow up in Christ, mature.
We are united or in union with Christ, yes, but it still does not make Jesus God.
Your explanations defy all logic.
The bible clearly tells us Jesus was the Son of God.
The bible clearly says God was his Father and his God.
Jesus clearly said God was his God and his Father.
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You
have sent.” The Lord Jesus Christ in John 17:3
“Jesus said to her, ‘Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My
brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and
your God.’” The Lord Jesus Christ in John 20:17
“yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord
Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. However, there is not in
everyone that knowledge.” The apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 8:6, 7
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” The apostle Peter in 1 Peter 1:3
“Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ,
the Son of the Father, in truth and love.” The apostle John in 2 John 3
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Jesus had a beginning, he was created.
The Angel Gabriel said this....
Matt 1:18-21
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."
NKJV
The word translated “conceived” in verse 20, is the Greek word “gennao” which means to
beget. Conception and begetting mark the point in time in which a person begins to exist. In
fact the beginning of Matthew states, “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of
David, the Son of Abraham” (Matthew 1:1). The word translated “geneology” is “genesis” in
Greek! Matthew, chapter 1, tells us how Jesus Christ came into existence. Just as the heavens
and the earth came into existence by the creative power of God (recorded in the book of
Genesis), and did not exist before its creation, so Jesus came into existence, for the first time,
by the creative power of God in Mary’s womb.
Jesus did not pre-exist in heaven as God and then decide to reduce himself and then pass
through time and space and enter Mary’s womb as a baby. An entity like this is not “conceived”
or “begotten” he merely passes through one form of life into another .
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Look, I know this doctrine you have believed, and I know why.
I will not persuade you or anyone else because you have taken a position that you will not let go of, whether right or wrong.
But I will say this... The Jesus who is my Lord is a real Champion to me.
He is not a godman that I cannot identify with.
He was a genuine man that was tempted and tried. God could not be tempted.
Jesus could have sinned, but he did not.
God could not have sinned.
I could identify with Jesus but not a godman... think on that alone and all the ramifications that are so numerous. He was made like his brethren, do you have any godman brothers?
I am tired of this same old debate. I suppose all Trinitarians will learn the truth when the Son of God returns. I'm done here...
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6 edits
Originally posted by checkbaiter
No, God wants to share His love and be loved in return.
Of course that is also true. In fact "God is love".
The Triune God is love.
That is why He gave us the gift of holy spirit and the Lord Jesus Christ, along with Apostles, pastors, Teachers, etc., so we could grow up in Christ, mature.
I don't know why you do not want to capitalize Holy Spirit.
To whom God gave the Holy Spirit and Christ - God abides in him.
" Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God." (1 John 4:15)
You want to teach that small s "holy spirit" and Jesus - the Christian is in union with. But you do not show enthusiasm for the fact that "God abides in him and he in God".
The Father is "IN ALL" of the constituents of the Body of Christ, and not just over them all.
" One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all AND IN ALL." (Eph. 4:6)
Jesus is God become a man.
The Triune God - Father - Son - Holy Spirit is in all the members of the Body of Christ.
What we need to do is realize this and stand upon the facts. And we will LIVE so.
We are united or in union with Christ, yes, but it still does not make Jesus God.
Your explanations defy all logic.
Jesus was God before anyone was united with Jesus.
Being united with Jesus does not MAKE Jesus God.
Incarnation and resurrection make Jesus God become a man and that man exalted to the throne of God.
And though above I spoke of the time before the Word Who was God became flesh, mysteriously God did appear as a man in the Old Testament a number of times before Christ was even born. So it is rather mysterious and showing God transcendent over time.
God appeared as a man to Abraham in Genesis 18 and had lunch with him.
The bible clearly tells us Jesus was the Son of God.
Yes, that is true.
The bible clearly says God was his Father and his God.
Yes, that is true too. But we reserve the right to believe ALL that the Bible clearly says. The Bible also CLEARLY says that the "child ... born" is called "Mighty God" and the "son ... given" is called "Eternal Father".
This is isaiah 9:6 which you have probably been taught to twist, attempting to twist away the titles of this Wonderful One. However, He is called "Prince of Peace" why ? He is the Prince of Peace. And He is called Mighty God why ? For the same reason the born child is called Mighty God. He is the incarnation of the Mighty God.
And the Son ... given is called "Eternal Father" for the same reason that this One is called Prince of Peace. He is in fact the Eternal Father. He is the Eternal Father incarnated as a man.
If you argue that He is called Eternal Father but He is not Eternal Father then by the same logic you should argue that He is called Prince of Peace but He is not the Prince of Peace.
I do not believe something extra. I appeal to you to believe the fuller scope of revelation that the Bible gives us.
Jesus clearly said God was his God and his Father.
That is true.
As serious students of the word of God we should learn not only what is written but again what ALSO is written as well.
In the experience of the believers in Rome, they could detect no difference within them from the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, Christ Himself, and the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead. (Rom. 8:9-11)
The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ is Christ. And as far as the Son taught, He promised that He and His Father would come to His lovers as the divine "We".
" Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
So then, not only is the Son Christ in me but the God and Father who is over all and through all is IN all the members of the Body of Christ (Eph. 4:6).
" One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."
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Originally posted by checkbaiter
Look, I know this doctrine you have believed, and I know why.
I will not persuade you or anyone else because you have taken a position that you will not let go of, whether right or wrong.
But I will say this... The Jesus who is my Lord is a real Champion to me.
He is not a godman that I cannot identify with.
He was a genuine man that was tempted and ...[text shortened]... e. I suppose all Trinitarians will learn the truth when the Son of God returns. I'm done here...
Look, I know this doctrine you have believed, and I know why.
I believe in the Triune God because it makes sense of my experience. Like the recipients of the Roman letter, I too cannot detect any separation between the Spirit of God and Christ and the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead. (See Rom. 8:9-11)
I believe in the Trinity because it makes sense of that fact that God is in me from the day I called "Lord Jesus. Jesus take me home. I'm tired. Lord Jesus."
God became real to me. I have no problem understanding that Christ is God and God is in me. And God is in all the members of the Body of Christ the church.
I will not persuade you or anyone else because you have taken a position that you will not let go of, whether right or wrong.
It is right.
Do you deny that the Father is ... "in all" of the members of the Body of Christ ? (Eph. 4:6).
If you cannot deny that that is what is written then I believe what is right. I also believe what is right that the Word Who was with God WAS God and that the Word became flesh (John 1:1,14).
No, you will not be able to convince me that I should deny John 1:1,14.
But I will say this... The Jesus who is my Lord is a real Champion to me.
He is not a godman that I cannot identify with.
What else should we call a huiman child who is called "Mighty God" ? God-man is an appropriate expression for such a Wonderful Person.
Did you read my thread on Prayereading the Word of God ?
You should stop arguing and just pray back God's words to Him.
The passages which you do not like - you should Prayread back to God.
Perhaps you might see things differently if you just learn to Amen the word of God in places where your natural mind reacts against what is being said.
I have absolutely NO problem praising and praying ANY passages showing that Jesus prayed to His Father or called God His Father His God. I am not afraid to Prayread any passage you would like me to closely consider - NONE AT ALL.
In fact, it would be good for us to Prayread the entire Gospel of John.
He was a genuine man
YES. A genuine man. A PERFECT man. No argument from me there!
that was tempted and tried.
Of a truth. Thou hast well spoken !
God could not be tempted.
Okay. James says God cannot be tempted.
But to mingle two or more things together is to combine them in such a way that the components remain distinguishable in the combination.
Jesus - the complete God MINGLED with the perfect Man. That is the Lord Jesus.
Jesus could have sinned, but he did not.
He did not sin.
And to be able to DIE - He had to be a Man.
And to make the effectiveness of His death have eternal power - He is God Himself.
Marvelous! Too Wonderful - the God-man Jesus Christ our Lord.
God could not have sinned.
I could identify with Jesus but not a godman... think on that alone and all the ramifications that are so numerous. He was made like his brethren, do you have any godman brothers?
All of my Christian brothers as God-men.
Jesus is God by incarnation and resurrection.
My Christian brothers and I are becoming God in Christ's full salvation but not in His Godhead.
I am tired of this same old debate. I suppose all Trinitarians will learn the truth when the Son of God returns. I'm done here...
You should read again the story of God forming Eve from the rib of Adam.
This little picture is not insignificant. It is the KEY to the whole divine revelation of the Bible. From the ONE God made TWO. And then He brought the TWO together to be ONE.
The only thing that could come back to Adam as his wife was that which came out of Adam. The Bible says God builded a woman.
This picture is of the most profound truth. God became man. And out of this man God produces a Wife, a counterpart for this man to match him, to correspond to him, even to complete him.
God's eternal plan is to dispense Himself into man.
God's eternal purpose is to dispense Himself as life into man.
THIS - is the true God and eternal life - the Trinity.
" And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we might know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ.
This is the true God and eternal life." (1 John 5:17)
Tell me then - to what does the word "THIS" refer to ? 'This" refers to Him that is true and to His Son Jesus Christ . In these the believers are - in Him that is true; in His Son Jesus Christ.
"This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, guard yourselves from idols." (1 John 5:20c,21)
Nothing should replace or usurp or take the place of the Triune God. He is the true God and eternal life. We should have nothing which is exalted above THIS One.