@philokalia saidI never understand this resistance to self-propelled enlightenment. If God does exist it's a pretty safe bet He wants people to be spiritually motivated. It is possible to be pro-active and suitably humble.
And, even if it is centered in God, it would be a mistake to ever credit yourself with your own spiritual progress.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIt's the typical Fundamentalist reaction to potential excess.
I never understand this resistance to self-propelled enlightenment. If God does exist it's a pretty safe bet He wants people to be spiritually motivated. It is possible to be pro-active and suitably humble.
If credit can possibly be over-claimed, then one must never claim any credit at all.
@bigdoggproblem saidYou described Christianity as having mandatory masochism and now you're shifting the goal posts back to a completely different line of argument, indicating that you've abandoned the previously absurd position.
My point has nothing to do with humility, or lack thereof. It is more about the simpler truth that no one else can walk your spiritual path for you.
Good!
@ghost-of-a-duke saidAw, I can dig it up if you want, there's a St. Symeon Metaphrastis quotation that talks about how God gives credit to each person's efforts, but it is key to the narrow path to regard everything which you do as a gift from God via grace and circumstance.
I never understand this resistance to self-propelled enlightenment. If God does exist it's a pretty safe bet He wants people to be spiritually motivated. It is possible to be pro-active and suitably humble.
We are occasionalists after all.
It is part of the way to remain humble and to not be aloof from those who have not been saved. It's part of not building ego.
@philokalia saidIf only you enjoyed listening half as much as writing, then maybe we could get somewhere.
You described Christianity as having mandatory masochism and now you're shifting the goal posts back to a completely different line of argument, indicating that you've abandoned the previously absurd position.
Good!
@bigdoggproblem saidI will do my best to improve, Master.
If only you enjoyed listening half as much as writing, then maybe we could get somewhere.
Please, start the lesson and let's get somewhere!
@philokalia saidBefore we can pour the tea, you first need to fashion yourself a teacup.
I will do my best to improve, Master.
Please, start the lesson and let's get somewhere!
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWow, just wow.
Before we can pour the tea, you first need to fashion yourself a teacup.
Very zen.
Let me know when I'm ready. 😵
@philokalia saidYou will be ready only when you stop waiting to be ready. (Heh)
Wow, just wow.
Very zen.
Let me know when I'm ready. 😵
@bigdoggproblem saidWhen the student is ready
You will be ready only when you stop waiting to be ready. (Heh)
The teacher appears
—(another) Zen saying
@philokalia saidTo your Castello?
Looks like we need to start a zen school in the spirituality forum with Big Dogg Problem as the abbot.
@philokalia saidI remember reading about a Zen Master who, when approached by a novice and asked to share his wisdom, simply poured tea onto the floor.
Looks like we need to start a zen school in the spirituality forum with Big Dogg Problem as the abbot.
Personally, I don't like to waste tea.