Meditation

@philokalia said

And, even if it is centered in God, it would be a mistake to ever credit yourself with your own spiritual progress.

I never understand this resistance to self-propelled enlightenment. If God does exist it's a pretty safe bet He wants people to be spiritually motivated. It is possible to be pro-active and suitably humble.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I never understand this resistance to self-propelled enlightenment. If God does exist it's a pretty safe bet He wants people to be spiritually motivated. It is possible to be pro-active and suitably humble.

It's the typical Fundamentalist reaction to potential excess.

If credit can possibly be over-claimed, then one must never claim any credit at all.

@bigdoggproblem said
My point has nothing to do with humility, or lack thereof. It is more about the simpler truth that no one else can walk your spiritual path for you.

You described Christianity as having mandatory masochism and now you're shifting the goal posts back to a completely different line of argument, indicating that you've abandoned the previously absurd position.

Good!

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I never understand this resistance to self-propelled enlightenment. If God does exist it's a pretty safe bet He wants people to be spiritually motivated. It is possible to be pro-active and suitably humble.

Aw, I can dig it up if you want, there's a St. Symeon Metaphrastis quotation that talks about how God gives credit to each person's efforts, but it is key to the narrow path to regard everything which you do as a gift from God via grace and circumstance.

We are occasionalists after all.

It is part of the way to remain humble and to not be aloof from those who have not been saved. It's part of not building ego.

@philokalia said
You described Christianity as having mandatory masochism and now you're shifting the goal posts back to a completely different line of argument, indicating that you've abandoned the previously absurd position.

Good!

If only you enjoyed listening half as much as writing, then maybe we could get somewhere.

@bigdoggproblem said
If only you enjoyed listening half as much as writing, then maybe we could get somewhere.

I will do my best to improve, Master.

Please, start the lesson and let's get somewhere!

@philokalia said
I will do my best to improve, Master.

Please, start the lesson and let's get somewhere!

Before we can pour the tea, you first need to fashion yourself a teacup.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Before we can pour the tea, you first need to fashion yourself a teacup.

Wow, just wow.

Very zen.

Let me know when I'm ready. 😵

@philokalia said
Wow, just wow.

Very zen.

Let me know when I'm ready. 😵

You will be ready only when you stop waiting to be ready. (Heh)

@bigdoggproblem said
You will be ready only when you stop waiting to be ready. (Heh)

When the student is ready
The teacher appears
—(another) Zen saying

Looks like we need to start a zen school in the spirituality forum with Big Dogg Problem as the abbot.

@hakima said
When the student is ready
The teacher appears
—(another) Zen saying

You got to know when to hold 'em...know when to fold 'em.

@philokalia said
Looks like we need to start a zen school in the spirituality forum with Big Dogg Problem as the abbot.

To your Castello?

@wolfgang59 said
To your Castello?

LOL

@philokalia said
Looks like we need to start a zen school in the spirituality forum with Big Dogg Problem as the abbot.

I remember reading about a Zen Master who, when approached by a novice and asked to share his wisdom, simply poured tea onto the floor.

Personally, I don't like to waste tea.