1. Standard membervivify
    rain
    Joined
    08 Mar '11
    Moves
    12351
    11 Aug '20 01:11
    Do any of you meditate? If so, how would you describe your experience?
  2. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    116436
    11 Aug '20 06:38
    @vivify said
    Do any of you meditate? If so, how would you describe your experience?
    It may sound a little unusual and even dangerous, but I use time alone driving in the car to engage in some positive mindfulness.

    I also find the obvious opportunities such as being outdoors, walking, looking at wildlife and landscapes very soothing.

    And I’ve always enjoyed daydreaming. Not quite sure what it is exactly but just letting ones mind wonder away on its own has always been a pleasant way to pass time.
  3. Standard memberBigDogg
    Secret RHP coder
    on the payroll
    Joined
    26 Nov '04
    Moves
    155080
    11 Aug '20 07:37
    @vivify said
    Do any of you meditate? If so, how would you describe your experience?
    Not as much as I should.

    Sometimes it is very calming. Other times it allows intense emotions to bubble up to the surface.
  4. S. Korea
    Joined
    03 Jun '17
    Moves
    41191
    12 Aug '20 02:34
    @vivify said
    Do any of you meditate? If so, how would you describe your experience?
    I meditated a lot in the Buddhist methods for several years when I was younger. I even attempted to practice some of the Catholic style forms of meditation, which involves picturing things, but I also abandoned these eventually.

    I had a lot of interesting experiences meditating and I think it was a net gain, but I also feel like it was a spiritual dead end in the sense that it leads to spiritual delusion to believe that you are achieving something through a spiritual practice that is not centered in God... And, even if it is centered in God, it would be a mistake to ever credit yourself with your own spiritual progress.

    I also believe that transcendental meditation can be dangerous as it really opens one up to prelest.
  5. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    12 Aug '20 04:14
    @philokalia said
    I had a lot of interesting experiences meditating and I think it was a net gain, but I also feel like it was a spiritual dead end in the sense that it leads to spiritual delusion to believe that you are achieving something through a spiritual practice that is not centered in God... And, even if it is centered in God, it would be a mistake to ever credit yourself with your own spiritual progress.
    Perhaps you are wrong about "God" ~ your religionist branding of spiritual beliefs or practices different from your own as being "spiritual delusion" and a "spiritual dead end", notwithstanding.

    And perhaps "God" gave humans the capacity to use meditation as a means of not only exploring who He is and/or the nature of ourselves and the universe we inhabit but perhaps He also wants you "to credit yourself with your own spiritual progress".

    This is a more open-minded view of meditation, I think. Your dabbling with Buddhism in the past isn't evidence of anything really.

    What it does establish, however, is that you think it is a "delusion" because you think it is a "delusion".

    All you have said, really, is that whatever your religion is, that is what is "centered in God". And whatever meditation unrelated to your religion that people engage in is "not centered in God".
  6. S. Korea
    Joined
    03 Jun '17
    Moves
    41191
    12 Aug '20 04:15
    @fmf said
    Perhaps you are wrong about "God" ~ your religionist branding of spiritual beliefs or practices different from your own as being "spiritual delusion" and a "spiritual dead end", notwithstanding.
    Sure, feel free to make that argument.
  7. S. Korea
    Joined
    03 Jun '17
    Moves
    41191
    12 Aug '20 04:16
    @fmf said
    And perhaps "God" gave humans the capacity to use meditation as a means of not only exploring who He is and/or the nature of ourselves and the universe we inhabit but perhaps He also wants you "to credit yourself with your own spiritual progress".
    Yeah, you could also make an argument like that, sure.
  8. S. Korea
    Joined
    03 Jun '17
    Moves
    41191
    12 Aug '20 04:17
    @fmf said
    This is a more open-minded view of meditation, I think. Your dabbling with Buddhism in the past isn't evidence of anything really.
    Right, I actually did not use it as evidence for anything.


    And your view appears to be more "open minded."

    However, open mindedness does not necessarily correlate with correctness, but this is an interesting insight into the way you think, thanks.
  9. S. Korea
    Joined
    03 Jun '17
    Moves
    41191
    12 Aug '20 04:18
    @fmf said
    What it does establish, however, is that you think it is a "delusion" because you think it is a "delusion".

    All you have said, really, is that whatever your religion is, that is what is "centered in God". And whatever meditation unrelated to your religion that people engage in is "not centered in God".
    That is what it said.

    The implication, of course, is that which is not centered explicitly in God cannot be correct, which is a theologically & spiritually significant point.

    Thus, it is something worth putting into a spiritual discussion.

    I am glad you pointed that out.
  10. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    12 Aug '20 04:18
    @philokalia said
    I also believe that transcendental meditation can be dangerous as it really opens one up to prelest.
    Prelest (from Russian: прелесть, from Russian: лесть - cajolery (charm, seduction), Greek: πλάνη - plani), also known as [wiki]: spiritual delusion, spiritual deception, delusion, illusion, – according to Holy Fathers of Orthodox Church, a false spiritual state, a spiritual illness, "a wounding of human nature by falsehood" (St. Ignatius Brianchaninov).

    The concept of prelest should not be confused with somatic mental illness of any kind; prelest is rather a spiritual illness, an illness of the soul in its personal relation to God, an illness that originates from vainglory, pride, and demonic suggestion and that is to be cured by humility and Holy Sacraments and under the guidance of the spiritual father. [wiki]


    Gosh, sounds simply awful.
  11. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    12 Aug '20 04:28
    @philokalia said
    Thus, it is something worth putting into a spiritual discussion.
    But your attitude to other people's spiritual paths is so utterly limited and prejudiced by your relatively recent complete balls-to-the-wall underpants-nailed-to-the-mast subscription-internalization-regurgitation of a particular dogma/doctrine of a particular Christian denomination.

    You really ought to make that clear, explicitly, over and over again, like a caveat emptor, rather than just ooze stuff about "delusion" and "dead ends" etc.

    Your criteria for what is and isn't "delusion" is simply second-hand stuff you have rote-learned from a specific religious group. You should constantly remind others that this is the reality underpinning your take on their spiritual paths.
  12. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    12 Aug '20 04:32
    @philokalia said
    Right, I actually did not use it as evidence for anything.
    You tried to. You quite clearly were suggesting that Buddhist meditation is a "spiritual dead end" that leads to spiritual delusion" simply because it is not the same as whatever religion you are a member of now.
  13. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    12 Aug '20 04:40
    @philokalia said
    However, open mindedness does not necessarily correlate with correctness, but this is an interesting insight into the way you think, thanks.
    If you see yourself as promoting "correctness" here, that's OK, I suppose. Presumably, doing so means you now have to squeeze all your former pre-Orthodox Catholic curiosity through very specific doctrinal valves in order that, whatever you get from doing that, it does not deviate from the very specific doctrine of the Orthodox Catholic Church.
  14. S. Korea
    Joined
    03 Jun '17
    Moves
    41191
    12 Aug '20 04:46
    @fmf said
    But your attitude to other people's spiritual paths is so utterly limited and prejudiced by your relatively recent complete balls-to-the-wall underpants-nailed-to-the-mast subscription-internalization-regurgitation of a particular dogma/doctrine of a particular Christian denomination.

    You really ought to make that clear, explicitly, over and over again, like a caveat emptor, r ...[text shortened]... d constantly remind others that this is the reality underpinning your take on their spiritual paths.
    How am I prejudiced?

    Is an atheist prejudiced against all religious traditions because he bluntly states that there is no God?

    Why would I be prejudiced for stating that I feel that all spirituality not centered around God is a dead end?

    For someone who talks about honestly employing the word cult without pulling any punches, you're awfully sensitive.

    You really ought to make that clear, explicitly, over and over again, like a caveat emptor, rather than just ooze stuff about "delusion" and "dead ends" etc.

    Your criteria for what is and isn't "delusion" is simply second-hand stuff you have rote-learned from a specific religious group. You should constantly remind others that this is the reality underpinning your take on their spiritual paths.


    Why do I need to do all that when you are here to do it for me? 😛
  15. S. Korea
    Joined
    03 Jun '17
    Moves
    41191
    12 Aug '20 04:48
    @fmf said
    You tried to. You quite clearly were suggesting that Buddhist meditation is a "spiritual dead end" that leads to spiritual delusion" simply because it is not the same as whatever religion you are a member of now.
    This reply is actually off point.

    I was talking about this

    Your dabbling with Buddhism in the past isn't evidence of anything really.


    When I said this

    Right, I actually did not use it as evidence for anything.
Back to Top

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.I Agree