@kellyjay saidTheir height can be measured. Who the taller person is can be ascertained. The same cannot be said about the supposed "truths" to which your theist beliefs pertain.
Yes, I agree, the truth will be that way all of the time, a universe where truth is
fractured isn't something real where those times of things are not the way.
@kellyjay saidYou are mistaken. It is entirely germane to bear in mind the difference between knowledge established through empiricism and objectivity, on one hand...
Irrelevant.
...and speculative and aspirational opinions about supernatural things [and passed-off as "knowledge" and "the truth" by theists], on the other.
That you dismiss this as "irrelevant" is extremely revealing about your mindset.
@fmf saidNo, your question is irrelevant.
You employ two slightly gormless analogies about measuring temperature and measuring height, and then when they crumble under the weight of one or two sentences of scrutiny, you dismiss your OWN analogies as "irrelevant"!
@fmf saidEither the universe is based on truth throughout, or it isn't; the fact we are confused
You are mistaken. It is entirely germane to bear in mind the difference between knowledge established through empiricism and objectivity, on one hand...
...and speculative and aspirational opinions about supernatural things [and passed-off as "knowledge" and "the truth" by theists], on the other.
That you dismiss this as "irrelevant" is extremely revealing about your mindset.
about so many things have more to do with us than the truth found in the universe.
@kellyjay saidYou can assert that your beliefs about supernatural causality are "the truth^ until the cows come home but it will not alter the fact that you are only talking about your faith.
You can keep saying that as if that is a truth statement that can’t be false, you just simply refuse to acknowledge that truth can be known.
@fmf saidYou are simply saying what you believe about something outside you is different
You can assert that your beliefs about supernatural causality are "the truth^ until the cows come home but it will not alter the fact that you are only talking about your faith.
from mine. You also claim your beliefs are knowledge about the truth, but you
don't have direct knowledge and deny the knowledge and experiences others tell
you about are as if you know what is true and isn't.
@kellyjay saidWe are just sharing our subjective opinions. I have a good understanding of the psychology that makes you claim that you literally "know" the tenets of your faith are "objective" and "the truth" and "knowledge". As for your "experience" of faith, I have never once denied that you have "experience" of faith. Don't be so disingenuous.
You are simply saying what you believe about something outside you is different
from mine. You also claim your beliefs are knowledge about the truth, but you
don't have direct knowledge and deny the knowledge and experiences others tell
you about are as if you know what is true and isn't.
@fmf saidYou deny the God involved, so you do deny the experience as you did your own
We are just sharing our subjective opinions. I have a good understanding of the psychology that makes you claim that you literally "know" the tenets of your faith are "objective" and "the truth" and "knowledge". As for your "experience" of faith, I have never once denied that you have "experience" of faith. Don't be so disingenuous.
so-called experience which you renounced.
@kellyjay saidI know full well that you believe "God is involved". I once did too. I am well aware of your religious faith, KellyJay. Anyway. Why don't you go back to talking about your personal opinion about a "meta-narrative" and about how the universe is 6,000 years old and how you are immortal and all the rest of it?
You deny the God involved, so you do deny the experience as you did your own
so-called experience which you renounced.