1. Maryland
    Joined
    10 Jun '05
    Moves
    110450
    21 Oct '10 00:31
    My understanding is that for a true miracle to occur, something must occur that suspends the laws of nature. (Resurrection from the dead, or a virgin birth would be examples.) I, in my life have never witnessed the suspension of the laws of nature. I have, however, witnessed lying more times than I can count. It seems to me, these miracles are most likely lies.
  2. Joined
    24 Sep '10
    Moves
    965
    21 Oct '10 00:59
    Originally posted by 667joe
    My understanding is that for a true miracle to occur, something must occur that suspends the laws of nature. (Resurrection from the dead, or a virgin birth would be examples.) I, in my life have never witnessed the suspension of the laws of nature. I have, however, witnessed lying more times than I can count. It seems to me, these miracles are most likely lies.
    This is a miracle

    Miracle > {Receptivity to Truth}
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
    Joined
    11 Apr '09
    Moves
    91531
    21 Oct '10 01:44
    Originally posted by 667joe
    My understanding is that for a true miracle to occur, something must occur that suspends the laws of nature. (Resurrection from the dead, or a virgin birth would be examples.) I, in my life have never witnessed the suspension of the laws of nature. I have, however, witnessed lying more times than I can count. It seems to me, these miracles are most likely lies.
    I experienced what may be termed a miracle but from another perspective its just normal.
  4. Joined
    24 Sep '10
    Moves
    965
    21 Oct '10 01:49
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I experienced what may be termed a miracle but from another perspective its just normal.
    When Christ walked on water, and brought a ship that was out to shore, and the moment he turned around, BACK to shore, both these moments were an expression of "What cannot the image and likeness of God do?", which is -considered- a "miracle" to they that know not what IS True.
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
    Joined
    11 Apr '09
    Moves
    91531
    21 Oct '10 01:52
    Originally posted by tacoandlettuce
    When Christ walked on water, and brought a ship that was out to shore, and the moment he turned around, BACK to shore, both these moments were an expression of "What cannot the image and likeness of God do?", which is -considered- a "miracle" to they that know not what IS True.
    WTF? walked on water? I think this is the sort miracle joe was referring. Something that happened ages ago and is not verifiable.
  6. Joined
    24 Sep '10
    Moves
    965
    21 Oct '10 02:191 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    WTF? walked on water? I think this is the sort miracle joe was referring. Something that happened ages ago and is not verifiable.
    There will come a day that everyone shall be able to skid across the waters, then run back to shore, and do all over again, if they had such a desire to, for what is within one to grasp, and mankind has not EVEN COME REMOTELY CLOSE to what is possible of ones capabilities, and the unlimitedness that shall one awaken to.

    You'll be able to swim in lava if desired. You'll travel by your thought taking you to your desired destination, whether it the stars, planets, Heavens.You'll be able to communicate with sharks that supposedly would thrash on you in the sea, being man has inherited the earth, and the animals upon it, to which they reACT to our fear of them, and -only why- they would ever attack anyone.
  7. Maryland
    Joined
    10 Jun '05
    Moves
    110450
    21 Oct '10 06:08
    Originally posted by tacoandlettuce
    There will come a day that everyone shall be able to skid across the waters, then run back to shore, and do all over again, if they had such a desire to, for what is within one to grasp, and mankind has not EVEN COME REMOTELY CLOSE to what is possible of ones capabilities, and the unlimitedness that shall one awaken to.

    You'll be able to swim in la ...[text shortened]... on it, to which they reACT to our fear of them, and -only why- they would ever attack anyone.
    I am confident you will never arrive at such a day!
  8. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86307
    21 Oct '10 06:46
    Originally posted by 667joe
    My understanding is that for a true miracle to occur, something must occur that suspends the laws of nature. (Resurrection from the dead, or a virgin birth would be examples.) I, in my life have never witnessed the suspension of the laws of nature. I have, however, witnessed lying more times than I can count. It seems to me, these miracles are most likely lies.
    So if you did see a miracle, then all the lies you have heard would become truths; or would that make you a liar too? Are you a fundamentalist type of thinker, i.e. you have all the truth, or do you believe in possibilities?
  9. Maryland
    Joined
    10 Jun '05
    Moves
    110450
    21 Oct '10 09:59
    Originally posted by divegeester
    So if you did see a miracle, then all the lies you have heard would become truths; or would that make you a liar too? Are you a fundamentalist type of thinker, i.e. you have all the truth, or do you believe in possibilities?
    You are lying to yourself. Have you ever seen someone rise from the grave or walk on water, or speak with a burning bush? Again, using your brain, which is more likely........that these things happened or that human beings made these events up? You can deal with facts, or you can live in your imaginary world. You should examine your own religion with the same skepticism you apply to all the others that you reject.

    By the way, I am not calling you a liar, I am just saying it is more likely that the miracles of the bible were more likely to be lies than facts because based on my observation, the laws of nature can not be suspended, but humans lie all the time.
  10. Joined
    28 Jul '04
    Moves
    69613
    21 Oct '10 10:12
    Originally posted by 667joe
    You are lying to yourself. Have you ever seen someone rise from the grave or walk on water, or speak with a burning bush? Again, using your brain, which is more likely........that these things happened or that human beings made these events up? You can deal with facts, or you can live in your imaginary world. You should examine your own religion with the ...[text shortened]... e based on my observation, the laws of nature can not be suspended, but humans lie all the time.
    These "miracles" aren't necessarily lies, just misinterpretations and mistranslations. A lie would be deliberate deception. In this case, it isn't necessarily deliberate.

    If I actually believed a snake just talked to me, and I tell that to someone else, then I wouldn't be lying.
  11. Maryland
    Joined
    10 Jun '05
    Moves
    110450
    21 Oct '10 10:37
    Originally posted by lausey
    These "miracles" aren't necessarily lies, just misinterpretations and mistranslations. A lie would be deliberate deception. In this case, it isn't necessarily deliberate.

    If I actually believed a snake just talked to me, and I tell that to someone else, then I wouldn't be lying.
    True, but either way, the snake did not talk to you.
  12. Joined
    28 Jul '04
    Moves
    69613
    21 Oct '10 11:19
    Originally posted by 667joe
    True, but either way, the snake did not talk to you.
    Yep, and it didn't to anyone 6,000 years ago either. 🙂
  13. Joined
    11 Nov '05
    Moves
    43938
    21 Oct '10 12:13
    Now I am going to tell you why the elephant has a trunk

    The Elephant used to only have a small snout in The Beginning. This didn't bother him unduly, in fact he was rather proud of his small nose because it never got in the way of feeding and drinking.

    Because of his great size, mealtimes were very important to Elephant, and he had to eat and drink a great deal in order to keep his great strength up.

    However, he did find it uncomfortable, because he had to go down on bended knees to reach anything.

    One day, Elephant was at the river, and was kneeling down drinking from the fresh water.

    Crocodile swam past, and saw Elephant at the water's edge. Crocodile was feeling particularly hungry, and saw an opportunity for a good meal.

    Crocodile swam stealthily up to where Elephant was, and suddenly lunged out of the water and grabbed Elephant by the nose.

    Elephant was startled, and tried to pull away, but Crocodile had a firm grip on his nose.

    Crocodile used all his weight and strength to try to pull Elephant into the water.

    However, Elephant was also very strong, and he dug his feet into the bank and fought back.

    The 2 battled for hours, and with every pull and tug, Elephant's nose stretched a little more. Eventually, Crocodile became too tired to pull any more, and let go of Elephant.

    Elephant ran off, with his now very long nose hanging down in front of his feet. He was distraught, and hid in the bush as he was too embarrassed to face the other animals.

    Soon, Elephant realised that his new stretched nose was more useful than his previously small snout. He was able to reach food and drink without kneeling any more, and could even reach high branches and pull them down to eat the fruit and leaves.

    All the other Elephants soon realised the benefits of having a long trunk, and one by one they too visited the river and taunted the Crocodile to try and pull them into the water.

    The Elephants always won the tug-of-wars, and all ended up with lovely stretched snouts, but Crocodile remained hungry.

    To this day, all Elephants still have their long trunks rather than a small snout, and Crocodiles have learnt that it is a waste of time and energy attacking Elephants when drinking at the water's edge.

    This is the reason why the elephant has a trunk.

    Another fable is why women have the painful labour when delivering a child, why men have to work so hard to get food for their family, why knowledge is not good for everyone, why snakes crawl on their bellies. Same kind of stories, same kind of fables. Some you find in the bible, some you find in the folklore, and some you find in the biblical folklore. Doesn't neccessary be a lie, but they are all good stories.

    But if you believe in them, then you are in trouble.
  14. Joined
    28 Jul '04
    Moves
    69613
    21 Oct '10 12:22
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Now I am going to tell you why the elephant has a trunk

    The Elephant used to only have a small snout in The Beginning. This didn't bother him unduly, in fact he was rather proud of his small nose because it never got in the way of feeding and drinking.

    Because of his great size, mealtimes were very important to Elephant, and he had to eat and dr ...[text shortened]... lie, but they are all good stories.

    But if you believe in them, then you are in trouble.
    Sometimes they are philosophical moral stories (e.g. Aesop's fables), and weren't intended to be believed literally, just as metaphors in explaining something else.

    It wouldn't surprise me that this is how the bible started, along with embellishment over time.
  15. Joined
    11 Nov '05
    Moves
    43938
    21 Oct '10 12:271 edit
    Originally posted by lausey
    Sometimes they are philosophical moral stories (e.g. Aesop's fables), and weren't intended to be believed literally, just as metaphors in explaining something else.

    It wouldn't surprise me that this is how the bible started, along with embellishment over time.
    Of course fables aren't suppposed to be taken literally. Everyone believing that the elephant got its trunk in an crocodile incident is - (how should I phrace it in order not to get insulting toward some people?) - somewhat naïve.

    Doesn't matter if you find them in Genesis, or in a children book.
Back to Top