1. Maryland
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    26 Apr '17 10:45
    “. . . The Christian religion not only was at first attended with miracles, but even at this day cannot be believed by any reasonable person without one.”

    —David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, 1748
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    26 Apr '17 10:57
    Originally posted by 667joe
    “. . . The Christian religion not only was at first attended with miracles, but even at this day cannot be believed by any reasonable person without one.”

    —David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, 1748
    Miracles, signs and wonders follow those that believe, they do not lead the way.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Apr '17 11:141 edit
    Originally posted by leunammi
    Miracles, signs and wonders follow those that believe, they do not lead the way.
    And do you have autobiographical stories about miracles that followed you ~ as a result of you being among "those that believe" ~ that you believe proves your assertion true?
  4. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    26 Apr '17 11:19
    Originally posted by FMF
    And do you have autobiographical stories about a miracles that followed you ~ as a result of you being among "those that believe" ~ that you believe proves your assertion true?
    What would you accept as a reasonable 'miracle'?
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    26 Apr '17 11:23
    Originally posted by 667joe
    “. . . The Christian religion not only was at first attended with miracles, but even at this day cannot be believed by any reasonable person without one.”

    —David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, 1748
    "Christianity is almost 2,000 years old. We're past the age of prophets... 'proof' is for wimps. Faith in Truth is Knowledge." -- Suzianne, 2016
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Apr '17 11:29
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    What would you accept as a reasonable 'miracle'?
    It is not really about what I find 'acceptable' or 'reasonable'; it is about what leunammi perceives as "miracles" and whether he believes he has proof to substantiate his claim.
  7. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    26 Apr '17 11:43
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    "Christianity is almost 2,000 years old. We're past the age of prophets... 'proof' is for wimps. Faith in Truth is Knowledge." -- Suzianne, 2016
    Ouch, that's bad logic. Let's extrapolate the idea that proof is for wimps and that true knowledge comes from faith.

    Two builders look to erect a house on a piece of land. Both are unsure about the nature of the land and if it would support the weight of a house. Builder A arranges surveys to be done of the land to 'prove' that the house's foundations would be secure. Builder B doesn't bother with such land surveys. Proof is for wimps. Instead he just goes straight ahead and builds his house in the 'faith' that it will stand strong.

    Which of these builders has acquired true knowledge?

    Ghost 2017
  8. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    26 Apr '17 11:49
    Originally posted by FMF
    It is not really about what I find 'acceptable' or 'reasonable'; it is about what leunammi perceives as "miracles" and whether he believes he has proof to substantiate his claim.
    What in your opinion would qualify as proof of a miracle?
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Apr '17 11:51
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    What in your opinion would qualify as proof of a miracle?
    Give me a scenario. I've never seen or experienced a miracle.
  10. Account suspended
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    26 Apr '17 11:555 edits
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Ouch, that's bad logic. Let's extrapolate the idea that proof is for wimps and that true knowledge comes from faith.

    Two builders look to erect a house on a piece of land. Both are unsure about the nature of the land and if it would support the weight of a house. Builder A arranges surveys to be done of the land to 'prove' that the house's foundat ...[text shortened]... that it will stand strong.

    Which of these builders has acquired true knowledge?

    Ghost 2017
    Neither. In order for their knowledge to be true it would of necessity need to be subject to falsification. In order for their theories to be found true and for them to claim the accolade of true knowledge the houses would need to be built and tested by natural elements. Builder A with his geological data may build his house on solid foundations but due to unforeseen circumstances suffers flooding due to building on a flood plane while builder B simply flukes it and builds on solid granite. Neither of them has gained true knowledge but suffer 'the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.'

    'Wisdom is PROVED righteous by its works' - Luke 7:35

    Robbie 2017 waz here today and gone tomorrow.
  11. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    26 Apr '17 12:25
    Originally posted by FMF
    Give me a scenario. I've never seen or experienced a miracle.
    So how then do you feel you are qualified to make a judgement on the topic?
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    26 Apr '17 12:282 edits
    Seeing that we are on a building theme I would also like to point out the miracles in connection with the infant Christian congregation were only intended to be temporary, like scaffolding upon a building which is removed when the structure is finished and functional. Even those performed by the Christ were of a temporary nature.

    Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with - 1 Corinthians 13:8-11
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Apr '17 12:331 edit
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    So how then do you feel you are qualified to make a judgement on the topic?
    We're all "qualified" to debate and discuss what we want. And the question remains as to whether leunammi has any evidence to offer to back up his assertion.
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    26 Apr '17 13:18
    Originally posted by FMF
    And do you have autobiographical stories about miracles that followed you ~ as a result of you being among "those that believe" ~ that you believe proves your assertion true?
    I was responfing to the OP, it's not about me.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Apr '17 13:20
    Originally posted by leunammi
    I was responfing to the OP, it's not about me.
    Oh? So you are not among those who believe in miracles?
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