Miracles

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
[...] the existence of life on this planet is a miracle? What would you have to say about that? How would you even know that my assertions are false?

I would discount your assertion as an ideologically driven falsehood dependent on you needing to contort the meaning of the word "miracle" for your own rhetorical purposes.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
And the question I have for you is how would you even know what would constitute evidence of a miracle if you have never seen or experienced one?

What about you? What do you think constitutes evidence of a miracle?

Originally posted by FMF
I would say I do not agree because it is explicable by natural and scientific laws which means it is not a miracle.

Do you have natural and scientific laws which explain the origin of life? I think not, therefore I think the existence of life is a miracle for one. Yet you probably would not acknowledge a miracle even if it were to hit you in the face.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Do you have natural and scientific laws which explain the origin of life? I think not, therefore I think the existence of life is a miracle for one.

Neither of us know the 'origin of life'. You are welcome to think of it as having been a miracle but you don't have any evidence that it was. Perhaps humans will know more about it in the centuries ahead.

Originally posted by FMF
Neither of us know the 'origin of life'. You are welcome to think of it as having been a miracle but you don't have any evidence that it was. Perhaps humans will know more about it in the centuries ahead.

So you demand evidence for a miracle even if you cannot tell me what constitutes evidence for a miracle?

A miracle is defined as "an extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency."

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So you demand evidence for a miracle even if you cannot tell me what constitutes evidence for a miracle?

I am asking you what you think is evidence of a miracle and you are pointedly sidestepping it.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
A miracle is defined as "an extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency."

Great. So have you experienced any miracles in your lifetime? leunammi said they "follow" "those that believe". Is he right?

Originally posted by FMF
I am asking you what you think is evidence of a miracle and you are pointedly sidestepping it.

When we don't understand why, but we like the outcome, therefore miracle. People live through plane crashes, for example, and lots of them think a miracle from the gods happened.

Originally posted by FMF
I am asking you what you think is evidence of a miracle and you are pointedly sidestepping it.

Actually you are the one side stepping the question. Your demand for evidence is absurd. People believe in miracles because they find no natural explanations for them so they attribute them to the supernatural. No one can prove a miracle using physical evidence because there is no physical evidence of the supernatural.

Originally posted by FMF
Great. So have you experienced any miracles in your lifetime? leunammi said they "follow" "those that believe". Is he right?

Yes there are many things in my life that I have experienced that I have no natural explanation for. I think he is right obviously because I share his beliefs about the supernatural.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Actually you are the one side stepping the question. Your demand for evidence is absurd. People believe in miracles because they find no natural explanations for them so they attribute them to the supernatural. No one can prove a miracle using physical evidence because there is no physical evidence of the supernatural.

So you cannot state for a fact that any of the miracles supposedly performed by Jesus actually took place?

Originally posted by FMF
So you cannot state for a fact that any of the miracles supposedly performed by Jesus actually took place?

Obviously I believe they did, but the only evidence I have is the account of those that witnessed it, and I choose to believe their accounts.

FMF: Great. So have you experienced any miracles in your lifetime? leunammi said they "follow" "those that believe". Is he right?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Yes there are many things in my life that I have experienced that I have no natural explanation for. I think he is right obviously because I share his beliefs about the supernatural.

Well, let's not forget, leunammi said both that he doesn't believe in miracles and that he does believe in miracles. So you might want to check what it is exactly that you share.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Obviously I believe they did, but the only evidence I have is the account of those that witnessed it, and I choose to believe their accounts.

What reason do I have to think that these miracles happened aside from your assertion that you believe they did?

FMF: So you cannot state for a fact that any of the miracles supposedly performed by Jesus actually took place?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Obviously I believe they did, but the only evidence I have is the account of those that witnessed it, and I choose to believe their accounts.

Is the occurance of these miracles one of your "absolute facts"?