(mod: CalJust) Elixir of Immortality

"What sorts of conditions or assurances would be necessary or sufficient to make it worthwhile to consume an elixir of immortality?"

The love of God.

Interestingly congenial posting in this thread followed by a pat on the back and a toast. Good job!

Originally posted by josephw
Interestingly congenial posting in this thread followed by a pat on the back and a toast. Good job!

I think the main reason for this is that nobody has a vested interest in the answer. Everyone can put their honest speculations out there without being thought of as taking sides.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I think the main reason for this is that nobody has a vested interest in the answer. Everyone can put their honest speculations out there without being thought of as taking sides.

"Everyone can put their honest speculations out there without being thought of as taking sides."

Then if one takes a stand on an issue they become suspect as to the honesty of their speculations?

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"Everyone can put their honest speculations out there without being thought of as taking sides."

Then if one takes a stand on an issue they become suspect as to the honesty of their speculations?[/b]

No, I don't think that is what he meant.

You are welcome to pick a side in an issue, in fact you are encouraged to do so. The only requirement is that when you defend (or explain) your point, you should do so in a manner that starts within the same frame of reference as your opponent.

For example, if you start with something accepted by both sides, you could say: "This is what we all agree on. However, you are missing this additional information, or misinterpreting that evidence."

But now I am being idealistic....

Originally posted by josephw
The love of God.

How would that manifest itself? How would you know?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
How would that manifest itself? How would you know?

Just before this thread disappears into oblivion, I want to just check if it did arrive at some kind of conclusion.

Firstly, thanks to FMF for posing the original question. It is a deceptively simple, but quite profound question: given the opportunity to take a sip of magic potion (think blue pill vs red pill) that would dispense immortality, would you drink it?

Secondly, up until josephw, no theists actually participated, but rather started their own thread. As I interpret josephw's condition of "the love of god" , is that he would drink it as long as he was asured of the presence of a benign, loving being at the end of eternity.

IF, on the other hand, the concensus seems to be that drinking the magic potion is frought with risks, the question comes to my mind why Everlasting Life is so much sought after and promoted?

Have we answered that question, or am I flogging this to death?

In essence, I am asking FMF whether he is satisfied with the conclusion of his theme.

Originally posted by CalJust
IF, on the other hand, the concensus seems to be that drinking the magic potion is frought with risks, the question comes to my mind why Everlasting Life is so much sought after and promoted?

The risks and benefits are both potentially infinite. We can only make vague guesses at either. So ultimately it comes down to how our brains make threat/reward assessments. I was somewhat surprised by the lack of risk takers because when it comes to issues like global warming it is well known that human psychology strongly favors short term gain over long term risk. I actually think that is the reason I would choose to take the Elixir - ie I think about the next 1000 years, and to hell with the consequences.

It was interesting that we saw very few theists participate. I wonder why they are uncomfortable speculating on this topic. Did they see it as a possible trap?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
How would that manifest itself? How would you know?

The love of God was manifested in the person of Jesus Christ.

I know because God said so.

Creates a conundrum for most. Faith is the key.

Originally posted by CalJust
Just before this thread disappears into oblivion, I want to just check if it did arrive at some kind of conclusion.

Firstly, thanks to FMF for posing the original question. It is a deceptively simple, but quite profound question: given the opportunity to take a sip of magic potion (think blue pill vs red pill) that would dispense immortality, would you dr ...[text shortened]... death?

In essence, I am asking FMF whether he is satisfied with the conclusion of his theme.

"...is that he would drink it as long as he was asured of the presence of a benign, loving being at the end of eternity."

I did drink of the elixir of God's love with absolute assurance. There's no other way. I don't recommend doing it until and unless one is assured. I took the cup and drank knowing that by faith I acted upon God's sure Word that He would save me and give me the gift of eternal life.

It's just that simple. If one is going to ascribe to the truth of God's Word which is contained in the Bible, then that's how and why it's done. Ergo, "there is no other way."

All other jibber jabbering not withstanding.

Originally posted by twhitehead
The risks and benefits are both potentially infinite. We can only make vague guesses at either. So ultimately it comes down to how our brains make threat/reward assessments. I was somewhat surprised by the lack of risk takers because when it comes to issues like global warming it is well known that human psychology strongly favors short term gain over lon ...[text shortened]... wonder why they are uncomfortable speculating on this topic. Did they see it as a possible trap?

There is no risk in taking God at His Word.

There's a saying within the Christian community, "if God said it, I believe it, that settles it". I disagree.

It would be better stated, "God said it, that settles it".

The truth of God's Word exists independent of whether I believe it or not. But when I believe, is when God's Word takes effect in my life, and not until then.

Originally posted by josephw
There is no risk in taking God at His Word.

There's a saying within the Christian community, "if God said it, I believe it, that settles it". I disagree.

It would be better stated, "God said it, that settles it".

The truth of God's Word exists independent of whether I believe it or not. But when I believe, is when God's Word takes effect in my life, and not until then.

Yeah but the thing is josephw, we *don't believe* you ... we don't believe your claims about this god character. Indeed that is one of only a few things that actually is settled - that we don't believe you!

As for an abstract notion of god (quite likely a better notion than yours), and the elixir proposed in this thread, though less risky than taking it with your notion of "God", as has been stated, it is still a risky bet - certainly too risky for me.

Originally posted by Agerg
Yeah but the thing is josephw, we *don't believe* you ... we don't believe your claims about this god character. Indeed that is one of only a few things that actually is settled - that we don't believe you!

As for an abstract notion of god (quite likely a better notion than yours), and the elixir proposed in this thread, though less risky than taking it wit ...[text shortened]... your notion of "God", as has been stated, it is still a risky bet - certainly too risky for me.

In fact, to “believe” or “not to believe” is not an issue that bothers a theist, just as “accepting” or “rejecting” say, Quantum Darwinism, is not an issue that bothers an atheist like this black beastie
😵

Originally posted by Agerg
Yeah but the thing is josephw, we *don't believe* you ... we don't believe your claims about this god character. Indeed that is one of only a few things that actually is settled - that we don't believe you!

As for an abstract notion of god (quite likely a better notion than yours), and the elixir proposed in this thread, though less risky than taking it wit ...[text shortened]... your notion of "God", as has been stated, it is still a risky bet - certainly too risky for me.

What ever gives you the idea that I thought you should believe me?

I don't think I could have made it clearer that I believe the only sure thing is God's Word! It's in the Bible. God loves you ole boy! Once you know that the issue will be settled for you too. No risk, just life eternal with God.

Originally posted by black beetle
In fact, to “believe” or “not to believe” is not an issue that bothers a theist, just as “accepting” or “rejecting” say, Quantum Darwinism, is not an issue that bothers an atheist like this black beastie
😵

Well, out of curiosity, what issue does bother a black beastie? 🙂

Originally posted by josephw
What ever gives you the idea that I thought you should believe me?

I don't think I could have made it clearer that I believe the only sure thing is God's Word! It's in the Bible. God loves you ole boy! Once you know that the issue will be settled for you too. No risk, just life eternal with God.

What ever gives you the idea that I thought you should believe me?
Erm ... How about because you're making claims about your god which you expect us to believe!?? 😕

Your god*, does NOT exist - and if it did, given that I hold your conception of it is an evil god ... there would be incredible risk.





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* I.e. the notion of this entity which resides in your head