16 Jun 21
@vivify saidWith supernatural things, I don't think you can choose to believe they exist. If you can, please choose to believe "heaven" exists for the next 72 hours, and then please choose to not believe it again.
You can't see heaven; you can only choose to believe it exists.
I think we realize that belief in a supernatural thing has formed in our minds. I do not think it is simply a decision we can make and, once we realize we believe the supernatural thing ~ while we might someday realize we don't believe it anymore ~ we cannot just choose not to.
16 Jun 21
@fmf saidWhat can we choose to believe... or is everything absolutely predetermined?
With supernatural things, I don't think you can choose to believe they exist. If you can, please choose to believe "heaven" exists for the next 72 hours, and then please choose to not believe it again.
I think we realize that belief in a supernatural thing has formed in our minds. I do not think it is simply a decision we can make and, once we realize we believe the supernatu ...[text shortened]... l thing ~ while we might someday realize we don't believe it anymore ~ we cannot just choose not to.
16 Jun 21
2 edits
@fmf saidI would apply that to most propositions.
With supernatural things, I don't think you can choose to believe they exist. If you can, please choose to believe "heaven" exists for the next 72 hours, and then please choose to not believe it again.
I think we realize that belief in a supernatural thing has formed in our minds. I do not think it is simply a decision we can make and, once we realize we believe the supernatu ...[text shortened]... l thing ~ while we might someday realize we don't believe it anymore ~ we cannot just choose not to.
Belief generally is not changeable with a simple decision.
Edit: I am, however, less convinced of this than I used to be. Sometimes, it seems like some people come quite close to an ability like self brainwashing. I don't know how they do it, but ...
16 Jun 21
@philokalia saidIt will vary from person to person. I find myself able to decide what I accept or do not accept as true when the issue is not emotionally charged, not underpinned by some preconceived prejudice, or not connected to speculation about the supernatural. I believe this more or less applies to most people.
What can we choose to believe... or is everything absolutely predetermined?
16 Jun 21
@bigdoggproblem saidIt could be that it stems from gut feelings that generate a kind of self-propelling sense of certainty. I doubt people can simply decide to snap out of it.
Sometimes, it seems like some people come quite close to an ability like self brainwashing.
@philokalia saidFalse dichotomy.
What can we choose to believe... or is everything absolutely predetermined?
16 Jun 21
@fmf saidThen this would be a problem for Christian evangelists, who claim people are going to hell for choosing not to believe in Jesus. In this case, people would be burning in hell for eternity over something they have no control over.
With supernatural things, I don't think you can choose to believe they exist. If you can, please choose to believe "heaven" exists for the next 72 hours, and then please choose to not believe it again.
I think we realize that belief in a supernatural thing has formed in our minds. I do not think it is simply a decision we can make and, once we realize we believe the supernatu ...[text shortened]... l thing ~ while we might someday realize we don't believe it anymore ~ we cannot just choose not to.
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16 Jun 21
2 edits
@vivify saidSince you go through the OT with a fine tooth comb to search out for sex crimes ordained by God, spend a little time on the Lord's prayer in the NT.
Probably because you can see the beautiful woman. You can't see heaven; you can only choose to believe it exists.
Was it we were to pray "Thy kingdom GO" or "Thy kingdom COME"?
We are expecting every inch of this earth to come under the authority of God.
Going to Heaven and going to Mars are about the same if one is not conformed to the image of Christ.
If His kingdom has not come to you you just transport your problems to another place.
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16 Jun 21
@lemondrop saidBeautiful women without an unregenerated human spirit leaves them looking beautiful yet kind of empty.
would rather have sex with a beautiful woman than go to heaven
The most beautiful people are those at peace within with God.
That doesn't fade like a withering grass.
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16 Jun 21
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@vivify
Well God's word tells me "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
You, me, Abraham and Jacob are part of the "all".
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21 Jun 21
@lemondrop saidif you are killed in a war (for religion) then you get to have seven virgins...
would rather have sex with a beautiful woman than go to heaven
21 Jun 21
@vivify saidIndeed. I never chose to stop believing in Jesus. I did not have that kind of control over the belief. I simply realized, eventually, after a transition period of gradually increasing doubt, that my faith was lost.
Then this would be a problem for Christian evangelists, who claim people are going to hell for choosing not to believe in Jesus. In this case, people would be burning in hell for eternity over something they have no control over.